THSCC Forums

Ahem, if the map makers would remember to send us webstuff-putter-uppers a file of the course map each time, there'd always be one available for viewing/reviewing.

Yes, this *would* be an umpteenth reminder to *all* map makers, not just Kevin.

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The person with too many names...
Mary E./ME/Emmie Fisher/Daniel/Daniel-Fisher
(& some others not suitable for posting!).
Help support our habits; BUY http://virginiabreeze.us !

A couple of years ago folks with trailers would tote people to the outer limits. This was nice...especially in Laurinburg.

I loved yesterday's course. The stopping zone worked my ABS pretty hard.

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Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

I wonder if it might be worthwhile to mention during the driver's meeting around the "both feet in" talk that the taxi way is definitely not the right place to be a hero?

My first run I was quilty off trying to make one catch. But as soon as it started to snap the other direction, I did the right thing.

Sincerely,
David "Hoping for a John Deere Sponsorship" Spratte

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Not spectacular just decent.
I'm not sure what I'm driving.
Maybe an ITR in DS.
Or half-assed STX prepped 330.

1. There is a measuring wheel in the trailer. It's green. It's in the milk crate box.

With that said, I don't think we should use it. Pacing works FINE for setting up even slaloms. People have been doing that for decades.

All that is required is the patience and work of the people at setup, not a new tool. (I'm not complaining, I happen to enjoy weird place slaloms).

2. If I ever see someone measuring something on our course with a 15' string OR chain I'm going to punch the course designer in the nuts. You've been warned.

Mike <-- If elected president in 2008 I will mandate a 20' minimum gate width.

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

Pacing generally does fine and we usually have gates wider than 15' but we have had snafu's with both this year.

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02 Focus SVT
STF 9

I'm voting for you.

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Karl S.
2014 Baby, 2014 House, 2013 Ford Focus ST, 2013 BMW 328i, 1994 Mercedes E320
(Insert passive aggressive signature line here)

While setting up the course we specifically tried to include as many 15' gates as possible. We love to hear Walter gripe, so we thought we might be able to push him over the edge

It's pretty obvious that 15' isn't enough for a moving car, hell, people couldn't maintain that spacing in grid while their cars were parked!

I understand. And please keep in mind that I'm certainly not complaining or blaming. I just don't want to go down a spiral that our tools are to blame It's all about experience and knowing what to pay attention to!

I've said before that as a former officer *I* take blame for any repeated mistakes over the years, since it's my lack of knowledge transfer to new officers and event chairs that caused mistakes to be repeated

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

Ohhh Im not bitching either. I dont think this course was GROSSLY unfair. There is no perfect course, most can find flaws with any course. I have designed my fair share and can honestly say "I could have done better but..."

Im less a fan of the measuring wheel as I am some method of quickly realizing "This gate is too effing narrow!!"

We just need to learn from our shortcomings (notice I didnt say mistakes) and improve in the future.

Next up in the frying pan is Marcus McRae and Karl Schultz If there is a gate less than 15' wide crotch punches for EVERYONE!!! Then Im gonna turn Walter loose on you

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02 Focus SVT
STF 9

I'm confident that I could have done a mid-high 75 second run on that course without hitting a cone or using reverse.

IN MY PICKUP TRUCK.

I know, it has blingin' wheels and that makes all the difference.

Scott

I am following the request not to criticize an individual event. I will simply point out a couple of good things about yesterday's course.

First, the gate width was just fine. Some looked a little tighter than usual, and I did actually pace some on the walkthrough, but they were all plenty wide enough and drove that way too.

Kevin Allen has said most of what I was thinking, and of course said it better.

I adore the Sanford site. I have to say that it is my favourite site. It has the space and shape to enable a wonderful flow, offering variation in the feel of speed without actually bringing those speeds and transition directions to spin-off (rather than simply "spin" ) levels. The traction variation on the surface itself presents an interesting challenge and I've seen that deliberately used as an element to make the course interesting.

I did like this event's use of the taxiway as a slower initial section before getting into the wider space, rather than to tail it down at the end after the runway strip. What made that particularly good in this case is, I noticed, that we didn't have access to run-off on the runway beyond the far cross road. Running the course "backwards" that way, with a long slow-box at the end, eliminated the need for such run-off at the end of the runway.

I'm not sure what else there is that is Sanford-specific. For example, smooth flow and easy-to-follow-visually are universals that should be present anywhere, not just Sanford. Keeping cars that spin on the paved surface is again a universal goal.

This site does add the element of surface transition, and that has to be accounted for in the design -- that's probably the biggest challenge from both the safety and flow point of view. The slippery parts need to be when the car is not subject to a combination of higher speed and lateral load, which means using them as either straights (braking or acceleration); or (my favourite) in lateral load but not high speed, so to start a sequence rather than end it.

I might think of more, but just like Kevin did, others will probably think of it first.

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Martyn Wheeler
AXing Kit's '05 Mazda 3, #29 HStock
(when The Gonzo Symphonic allows)

Here's the course map from the non-points event for those who wanted it:

http://mediasafe.embarq.com/kevintina20 ... se_map.jpg

I counted 28 cones, without including pointers and the "filler" walls at the turnaround. And only about 22 or so of those actually had any meaningful possibility of being hit by a car.

I think it's a GREAT idea for anyone who's planning to chair an autox to come to a rallyx and see what you can do with VERY few cones. This is how we do it all the time.

And on the thread subject, I don't think we should EVER end the course on the taxiway again, unless it's with an 1/8th mile straight. Most people hate having to slow down their avg speed that far into the course (kinda like 15 pace slaloms before the finish at Laurinburg - WTF?), and if it's fast toward a taxiway finish and you're not going straight, those of us who saw a driver of a red WRX do what it did know the potential outcome.

Not a bad idea. I also had some rally fun, but instead of pulling a drift0r while swinging toward the grass, i drove straight off, braked straight, and drove back on under control. thanks, track days.

Regards,
Dan "wishes he had a Subaru, but not really" Durusky

Did you count the section where you double back twice?

I don't think we've generally had a problem running cone "light" courses on the main runway.

Speaking of finishes, I apologize to most everyone at the event for not having a longer stopbox. Karl's car did it just fine on street tires, but his car stops pretty well.

Scott

Did anybody hit cones in the stop box????

Unpossible.

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.