THSCC Forums

That's surprising. I would think that the 300-400 lbs weight savings of an early E30 would offset any rear suspension inadequecies. Plus, except from a slightly funny toe curve, there is nothing wrong with the semi-trailing arms. Especially once it's stiffened.

Has Terry had any really competitive co-drivers? Is the car the limitation or is it the driver?

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

Jim,

I know that you probably aren't headed this way but for the info of others:

A couple of the mod classes may actually be the cheapest way to be Nationally competitive initially and for many years in the same car. Specifically CM or FM or even F125 shifter karts. A tow vehicle is essential (well, a shifter kart could go "in the trunk" of some cars/SUV's, etc. ). The main thing about these three classes is that the cars don't become obsolete like so many Stock class cars do. I trophied consistently in the same car for about ten years. Can't do that in many Stock Classes. The only one I can think of is the Rothney/Kozlaks in her Camaro.

From my experience, the most fun Stock class cars are the ones that "you" enjoy driving and can afford to drive on the best available tires. It really helps if the car is well balanced in an autocross. (Much as I like my Mustang, I would not like it as a primary autocross car. I would much prefer a Miata, for example, as an autocrosser in Stock.)

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

I should probably point out that in my over 25 years of autocrossing I have seriously autocrossed the following FOUR cars: 1974 Datsun 260Z in Stock. 1974 Lotus Europa in Stock and Street Prepared. 1988 Mustang in Stock. 1985 Van Diemen FF in C Mod. Obviously I tend to buy for the long term. Except for the Mustang which was better as a tow vehicle for the FF than as an autocrosser, all were Nationally Competive at the time, especially the Z and the Europa.

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

Terry had Matt Murray in the car at Ft. Myers in 2002. As you can see, he did quite well, and beat some good names:

http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/nat_t ... sults.html

Terry is a good driver, but he has a tough time getting 10/10ths out of the car. He offered me a co-drive in it for Nationals this past year, and if I didn't think I could trophy in GS, I would have taken it.

After looking at my 15th place finish, I should have taken it


If I were Jim, building a legal Civic Si for STS is not only cheap, but pretty easy to do. Check out Chris Shenefield's site: www.redshiftmotorsports.com

You could just buy his no legal 2003 STS car, and run it in CSP until you want to boost it. - AB

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'14 Toyota Sequoia Platinum 4WD
Super Westerfield Bros - '93 Integra - LeChump Du Jour
STX 93 - Scion FR-S

Hasn't Terry Baker at least Trophied at Nationals? Or does my memory fail me? See, I'd quantify Terry Baker as a "really compeditive co-driver". Perhaps I remember incorrectly...

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Diane (Hall) Bundas
1992 Spec Miata #48 - 1997 Chevy Tahoe - 2007 Honda Civic Coupe

Terry is certainly no slouch. I'm not sure who he's had co-drive it. He does get to go head to head with a lot of BSP E36 M3's in VA, and I supect they exchange cars and notes frequently.

Last I talked to him, he did think the suspension was holding him back a bit, but he'd far from given up on the car.

Scott

I have checked out his site fairly extensively. It is great that he shares his info with everybody like that. It's very tempting since it is a proven formula but I keep getting back to the fwd. It's a hard trade-off for me-- cheap, proven competitive car -vs- not as much fun to drive as I'd like. I used to own a '91 Civic Si. Probably should have never sold it but oh well... I also thought about buying Chris' car just for parts and putting them into a legal Si. That seems like a reasonable way to go. I think if I was going to run CSP, I'd probably just stick with a Miata.

Everybody makes a lot of good points-- definitely a bunch of stuff to consider. I should probably clarify my original budget a bit, though. I am intending to spend no more than around 8K for the initial purchase and setup but it is by no means a final cap. I may very well dump more money into it as time goes on if it is warranted. Or just for fun...

Sometimes I hate thinking about cars. Luckily, it usually passes quickly!

Jim,

Realistically, I would be really surprised if a Nationally Competitive car can be bought and setup for $8k in any class except Shifter Karts and maybe F Mod. Just about anything else that fits your budget is likely to be obsolete/outclassed by the time you spend the additional money it would take to make it potentially competive.

I forgot to mention in my previous post that the Z was Nationally competitive for one or two years. The Lotus for somewhat longer but was tough to keep healthy and legal. The FF still is after 12 years (driver isn't but car is).

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

I could build a competitive ES MR2 for $8,000 initial start up. Get a 91-92 HT or sunroof car (under $4000). Put a new short-block into it ($1200 shipped) and spend the remaining $2800 on a clutch ($600), head work($1000), wheels($800) and shocks($400). You can start with single adjustable Konis. Then upgrade those to doubles after you start to figure the car out.

If you can find a 93, then that is cool. I saw a 93 sunroof in the Raleigh area for $5000. But a 91 t-top finished 2nd at Nationals this year. One thing about ES, we are all lemmings

All the set up information is out there. The class is the most stable class that has cars with doors. There is not one MR2 national driver worried about the 94-97 Miatas being moved into ES. We haven't fully developed these little monsters.

It takes a while to get use to them. They are a blast to drive. They are sportscars and have timeless styling. You know mine is always for sale

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

How on earth can you spend $1000 on headwork for a stock class car. Shop around and you can spend less than that on a *new* cylinder head, then get it shaved the maximum stock legal amount...

Aside from shaving it a head, there isn't any other legal headwork you can do.

I'm building a head right now with dual valve springs, oversized valves, shaved (for truing and compression), a new cam, new rocker arms, all new gears, bore the cam journals to install bearings, etc...

It still will come in under $1000.

Scott

[quote="jimpastorius"]
I could build a competitive ES MR2 for $8,000 initial start up. Get a 91-92 HT or sunroof car (under $4000). Put a new short-block into it ($1200 shipped) and spend the remaining $2800 on a clutch ($600), head work($1000), wheels($800) and shocks($400). You can start with single adjustable Konis. Then upgrade those to doubles after you start to figure the car out.
quote]

Jim,

Since my experience with 10 year old cars is somewhat out of date, especially concerning Toyotas, realistically how "ready to race" and "reliable" will they be? Or should there be a significant budget for maintenance/parts replacement until the old stuff gets freshened? I'm thinking of bushings, brakes, fuel injection, electrics, etc. I ask since in the past (and apparently even the present with a lot of cars) this kind of freshening was necessary. The amount of money involved varies I'm sure based on parts prices and how much work the owner does, of course.

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

Kevin beat me to my prime advertising opportunity!

Seriously, Jim P. has indicated that he thinks the early 944 should be a prime ES car. Mine is _definitely_ available and I'm flexible on price. For your budget you could buy my car, prep it to the limit of ES with DA Konis et al and have enough left over for a few sets of Hoosiers.

--Kevin H.

Edit: Ouch! Just noticed my avatar.

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2003 WRX (again!)

If you do the motor yourself, you can save $450 labor on the clutch. What I proposed is building a MR2 for national competition. Now winning at that level, I would add ABS and replace all bushing. To add ABS from OE parts is about $1000 through Toyota Motorsports. The cars are pretty much bullet proof since the motor is a tried and true Camry motor. The only problems I have heard are spun bearings due to low oil levels. Now I have just jinxed my car.

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

I tossed that figure of $1,000 to get Jim to $8,000. I knew the cost of the other stuff. So in the past hour we have him down to $7,000.

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

Depends on the motor and how much work you do yourself. It cost us 600.00 to have the valves shimmed on the Celi, and that wasn't even taking the head off the motor or machine work.

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SPIN or WIN!
there's no glory for going slow.