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I asked my wife, who wants to start next year. She thinks that having two half year novice seasons, with the top finishers bumped to regular classes at the end of the first half, and every one bumped after a year, would be a good way to do it.

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RedLanternRacing, builders of the fastest cars in last place.
Success is not an option.
1981 Scirocco, "Vera"

Woohoo! A supporter Honestly I don't have any really strong opinions here at all, just thoughts.

One modification to the above -- and this is aimed at solving the biggest problem of YLN, which is that Novices that run their first event in the second half of the year run off with their tail between their legs when running against the A-game novices -- is that the 1/2 year novice eligibility could run into the following year.

Basically any novice could run 2 consecutive novice half-seasons, but is kicked out at the conclusion of 1 if he/she gets a trophy.

IMO It gives the best of both.

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

OK, here's what I have a problem with using some form of this method: First, you've still done away with the end of year trophy carrot. Second, I see two options with a split season-1 would be 5/5 with the 2nd half season overlapping into the first 2 events of the following year. The "year end trophy" would be for, say 4 of 5 of these events. But, the person who starts the 2nd half won't see his year end goodies until 1 1/2 years down the road when he/she's really no longer novice. No good. So, if you made the split season 4/4, it's basicly worse than what we have this year at 5. Getting kicked out of novice after 4 events is still throwing them into Open or Tire, with no carrot. And, with the kicked out rule, if you win, means that one Noob gets screwed (sort of) right away. The YLN class fosters competition among (generally) like levels of knowledge and experience. If getting kicked upstairs after one win is what novices truly wanted, PJ, Dan, and Rob would have been out by June last year. On the other hand, the Pollards did opt out and are doing well this year. I say YLN and let the Noobs decide for themselves.

Just more fuel for the flames.

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SCCA Solo Triad Award Recipient 2014
SCCA HSL National Champion 2012
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I actually said that tongue-in-cheek. If you go back through the years, you will find usually 5-9 novices that stick it out for more than a year. So 2005 is no different than the preceding years. Take a look at the 1999 results posted in another topic as a prime example.

That being the case, it really does not make an ounce of difference what you do. It is silly to think a piece of wood in December will make any difference. On average there are 20 novices at an event. We award 5 trophies, based on your assumption that wood is important, 15 people go home very disappointed.

Novice mentors, coordinators, hats, t-shirts, 3 times and out, YLN, split groups, actual trophies when the rest of us get magnets, trophies for every novice, extra runs for novices...all that will have little or no impact. Because 90% of them simply will not get it or find it is not their forte.

You want to make the sport more enticing, instead of using the energy and resources trying to fight a losing battle; use it to secure sites that are closer to the core membership.

We as a club have the longest commute than any other club that I know of. Reduce the commute to 15-30 minutes and novices will really appreciate that. As will the general membership.

Now what is up with the Ladies class...I thought that was suppose to entice more women to the sport...I actually started to shower and shave before events in anticipation

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

you missed a couple of spots

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05 MCS

One thing I suggested back when this was touched on was if you get bumped, to your open class, do something with the points that you would have accumulated instead of just wiping them out. Who's to say that a NOV could start really take to things fast and move to open and start spanking people in thier open class. Egos aside, it could be a possibility. The NOV guns for the top dogs and succeeds, then the top dogs are gunning for him. But after all of that, the points short-fall is still three events for the NOV.

A lot of my original thoughts have already been expressed and without getting into the why are you competing argument. A year-long NOV class with a trophy if anything gives those novices something to compete for and it is a retention tool. It keeps them coming back, it increases competition in the NOV class and after a year, it adds more competition for everyone in the open classes.

Do it any other way and all twenty go home disappointed. I say give them a year long class just like everyone else, if they like opting out after one trophy let them, if they want to stay for the whole year let them, if they want to opt out after four or five events let them. Do it that way and I'm sure you'll find out what the majority prefer. I know it's a fact that the trophy craze dies out after a little while at this sport but in the beginning it's important

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2004 C5(415whp,390ft/lbs),
1997C5,1997Trans Am, 1986 C4,
1990 Miata, 1976 MGB,1997 Protege, 1989 MR2

As one of the current VP's, I am in agreance with Jim on this one. I really don't think it matters one way or the other. Those that get hooked will stay, those that don't, won't. That being the case, if I'm VP next year I will probably push for the YLN just because it's the least complicated/easiest to keep up with....just one more class to track season points on like the rest. Stay in YLN if you want...or not.

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Stephen Westerfield
2009 Infiniti M35 | 2007 Honda Fit Sport | 2005 Ford Mustang GT |2000 GMC Sierra |1992 Acura Integra LS | Super Westerfield Bros Acura Integra

I don't agree that doing it that way will tell you what the majority wants, but I agree that YLN allows them to make the choice for themself, which I think is important. The novices are the only one it really matters too anyway.

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Stephen Westerfield
2009 Infiniti M35 | 2007 Honda Fit Sport | 2005 Ford Mustang GT |2000 GMC Sierra |1992 Acura Integra LS | Super Westerfield Bros Acura Integra

Please listen to Jeb.

Thats a problem not a solution, how do we impliment carry over points? Do we take points away from those who placed before the fast newbie showed up? do we award two first or second place points? what are we talking about here?Explain Scott and/or Jeb.

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2004 C5(415whp,390ft/lbs),
1997C5,1997Trans Am, 1986 C4,
1990 Miata, 1976 MGB,1997 Protege, 1989 MR2

I can elaborate. I will use myself as an example. I placed (trophied) out of NOV after my first 3 events. Then I competed in my open class (STS). Looking at the season's points standings, my first three events as NOV are null in STS. What I was suggesting, is that if there isn't a year-long class, transfer those points over to the open class. Therefore making my first three events count points-wise in my open class. I knew once the switch was made that I had a snowballs chance in Hades of really giving those guys a run for thier money. It didn't effect my desire to compete, but at the end of the season I would be able to see just how close/good I was points-wise.

If you take to things and learn fast then so be it. You only add to the competition in your class, but other than getting the "bump" there is no reward. Granted not everyone wants the physical trophies (dead horse) but seeing your name at the top of the list or close to it is a pretty good feeling even for a newb.

The only thing I am unsure of is how to weight those points to avoid two 1st places, etc. but I am sure something could be worked out. <needs to think a bit>

This lets the "hot shoes" run with their class and allows for YLN

i agree with that as well. Just because you advance to open doesn't mean you aren't still a NOV. Sure I may not be competetive in STS yet, but I can push myself to shine above the other in my "Novice Class".

You figure out a way to show novices in the base-class results listing. Lots of clubs do it that way, and the novices just have "N" by their name.

I've been a proponent of this for quite some time, its just an implementation issue, and that is what kept me from implementing it. There is a high probability that our current software can do this already.

Scott



This is what can happen when you run novices with class, but denote them as novices in the software.