THSCC Forums

Sorry I'm late to the party. Is there any shrimp left on the buffet?

I'm shocked that no novices have chimed in here. Where'd they all go?

Would any novice give up an extra run so they might not have to work 20 minutes longer than people in the morning?

I know one novice who was seriously bummed when the word on the street was we would only get three runs at NCAC. Most novices I know/knew are/were geeking for seat time.

At this level, turning the prospect of a fifth run into a unicorn would turn more people off than the 1/4 of people working slightly longer shifts in the afternoons. A 1/4 which should change on regular basis.

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Not spectacular just decent.
I'm not sure what I'm driving.
Maybe an ITR in DS.
Or half-assed STX prepped 330.

Then maybe they should spend their money at the kart track.

Everyone works only one shift and it's *both* afternoon shifts that get hosed, so it's really 1/2 of the people that get hosed, isn't it?

We've never guaranteed five runs and it's fairly often we don't get them. Haven't seen any complaining about that on the forums, nor heard anyone complain about it.

This is autocross, and there are a limited number of runs to be had. We're usually done early enough that you *could* argue we should try for 3+3, particularly at lightly subscribed events. While I like the seat time as much as anyone, having more runs at the same course isn't going to help people get to the next level nearly as much. This is a *competition* at the heart, not a school. Maybe we should do more schools? Or perhaps we just let Novices have an extra set of runs? Actually, I do sort of like that last idea, though I think we'd have a *lot* more complaining about getting kicked out of NOV if NOV got more runs. Maybe each NOV only gets four events of extra runs no matter how long they are in NOV after that. I don't know.

I do know National Tours are three runs per course (and per day) and as folks who may not aspire to go run those but should at least be aspiring to be better and thus measure themselves against those who *do* run those events, going to five runs or more changes the dynamic considerably of what we're doing. I think four is a reasonable place to have middle ground, personally.

But if there are a ton of people out there who would stop going at all if we went to four runs per event only (remember, I said we could still do fun runs and this club tends to do those when time is available), we need to hear from them. Maybe the social aspect is more important than the competition to more people than I think.


--Donnie

Doh. Math is hard.

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Not spectacular just decent.
I'm not sure what I'm driving.
Maybe an ITR in DS.
Or half-assed STX prepped 330.

Since I'm new to autocross, I figured I'd give my opinion. I've run 1 school, 3 split events, and 2 of the all runs at once events. My personal preference is for the all runs at once. I could imeditaly work on fixing where I thought I was slow with out having to wait till later in the day to do so... just my 2 cents..

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83 Porsche 911SC
07 Ford F150

Some people do this for fun, not to get to the next level. See the TIR thread from a few weeks ago for details. More runs = more fun, if it's a fun course.

Give that man a cigar!

Having more runs on the same course IS going to help many of us get better. My biggest gripe about autox is you don't get enough runs. After we remove the 10 of you who go to Nationals and don't mind driving for a week for 3 runs. The rest of us want more runs damnit!!!

If more runs on the same course had no value then someone please call the Evolution School folks and let them in on that tidbit. I got 30 runs in Phase I on the same course. I learned more, it was fun, and I worked an equal shift with everyone else. No one complained we got too many runs

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http://www.greywinds.com

Two words: Fun runs.

Again, in my opinion we're still *racing*. The type of racing we're doing is *autocross*. Within that discipline, there should be a reasonable definition of how many runs one will get to "nail it." At the National level, it's three. Within TH it appears it is usually four or five. Often when it is five, there is no time for fun runs. Often when it is four, there is.

With four being closer to the National number (yes, outside of those ten of us who run National events there are at least a few more people who aspire to) as well as being much more divisable by two for the purposes of fair work assignments when we run split run groups, it makes sense to go to four. When you also consider that if we stick with four we usually have time for fun runs, where everyone gets *two* more runs that want them, then people get MORE of those same cracks at the course. Since those runs aren't scored, I believe they also learn just how much they need to improve at being faster "quicker" in their runs. That whole "damn, I would have picked up two spots if my fifth run had been my fourth" thing is a strong motivator. But if you just give everyone five runs they're going to walk away far less worried about the fact that the fifth run was what did it.

That would seem to solve everyone's issues best, IMHO. Also works with split or AAO formats. Gives everyone more runs on average (of the people who *want* more runs).


--Donnie

Ding!

Would you still come out if there wasn't a timer? I'd have to think twice. I do it to see how I do solving the puzzle compared to the rest of the guys in class. Extra runs just allow more time with the foot and less with the brain.

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

Yep - depending on the course quality.



Uh... I don't see the problem here.

There is not a chance in hell I'd be out there without a timer. This is a competition, not a Show and Shine... if it were a show and shine, Donnie would bring out his pretty Cayman

I find that having test and tunes without timers as useless too, for something could feel fast, but by actually be slow. - AB

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'14 Toyota Sequoia Platinum 4WD
Super Westerfield Bros - '93 Integra - LeChump Du Jour
STX 93 - Scion FR-S

Or just do HPDE all the time What all this has to do with run format, I have no idea.

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

Isn't that called drifting? From what I hear, we would have larger events, spectators, and make a crap load of money if we ran those events.

However, we're amatures and don't want a crap load of money so we do autocrosses instead P)

How about this: divide field into 4 rungroups rather than two and run 2+2.
Everyone works a morning and afternoon shift, 1 works 3, 2 works 4 and viceversa.

Grid is 1/2 the size, less confusion.

If there are more runs in the PM, everyone still works same length of time as everyone else.

Run groups are shorter, shorter stretches in the hot sun for workers.

No one works and runs back to back, you always have a break between to park car, get ready, eat, socialize, sit in the outhouse, whatever.

Workers coming off a break are more likely to get to work assignments on time, afternoon asignment would be same as AM making it easier on worker chiefs.

Mentors can work with novices/students during their free sessions, or students can ride with mentors during theirs.

No need to rush the signup table to sign up for the 1st rungroup work assignments.

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SPIN or WIN!
there's no glory for going slow.

Gee, that sounds familiar

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2004 C5(415whp,390ft/lbs),
1997C5,1997Trans Am, 1986 C4,
1990 Miata, 1976 MGB,1997 Protege, 1989 MR2

I guess I just like playing around more than competing at this point. I have way more fun now by driving all crazy on setup days and running in AMod during events (or not running at all) than I ever did by getting FTPAX.

It was pretty fun beating up on Aaron in STS, though.