THSCC Forums

beer math at its best Bernie. BTW nice work @ NCAC. wood is good!!!!!

When I work the course during the final run group, I don't work any longer than the people in the first run group. You know why? I show up on time - not when the worker coordinators start calling for us. It took me one event working the last run group to figure this out. All you have to do is watch who's running, figure out what heat we're in, and time your trip out to the course appropriately.

unfortunately Kevin, that probably means the guy you are relieving has been there too long. you are doing what i do and what many others do. thing is, some poor sob is gonna get caught on course shagging cones for 1.5 heats every time. i don't know if anyone else noticed but even the G Vegas event in the afternoon was shorthanded for workers. i was relieved by 1 novice and a dude that said he did not want the radio. i was working the last station next to the finish. i went in and mentioned this to a worker co and they moved someone else over there.

we can debate who runs when and how often untill the cows come home, but afternoon work assignments suck and don't seem to be getting any easier. i say we force newbs to work in the morning so all us seasoned workers can relieve each other in the afternoon.

there you go, an idea. buddy system work assignments. an ass kickin is way more influential than a DNW.

I have to throw my 2 cents in... Being as I bring a child to the events I presonaly like the 2 + 2 format. It seems like it is easier for us to find someone to watch her as they arn't doing it for a horrible long stretch of time. I know this doesn't effect everyone but the numbers are growing and maybe that will help with the kiddy area. Just my 2 cents.

As far as working. That is why I work in the bus. Yea there are days when I want to pull all my hair out afterwards but at least I am in the airconditioning in the summer! So working alittle longer (3 runs instead of the morning 2 runs) doesn't bother me.

Maybe it's the worker coordinators that need re-training? Even with the AAO format in Greensboro I was given ample opportunity to work well over 1 heat. If I went and worked when the horn sounded, I would have easily stayed there for an extra amount of time.

Unless we start taking brakes between every heat, I fail to see how the AAO format changes *anything* in regards to long worker shifts for heats 2-XXX. With the last heat getting the added bonus of stacking cones.

Scott

I can see how that would happen Scott, you didn't check in at the buss like everyone else. You went straight to the starters position. AT the NCAC we waited until the field was starting their last run( usually they were five to ten cars into the run) that gave us about twelve to thirteen minutes to restaff the workers. There were about thirty workers that were assigned each run group. It takes about five minutes to assign them that leaves seven to eight minutes to get your water and walk the entire length of the parking lot to relieve the far stations. That puts the folks at work station 4 on their assigned spot three to four minutes before the first car in the next run group starts..... Most run groups were less than forty cars which lessens the time even further, and we still had folks showing up after the run group had started..... But I'll be sure to corral you at the next event so you can show us how to do it faster, as a matter of fact I'll even let you take my place and I'll work out in the field shagging cones.

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2004 C5(415whp,390ft/lbs),
1997C5,1997Trans Am, 1986 C4,
1990 Miata, 1976 MGB,1997 Protege, 1989 MR2

I won't be at the next event...Scott, would you mind being the WC with Bernie?

- Jabba

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05 MCS

If you're bringing the baby, I'd pass Scott. WC is a thankless FULLTIME position at an event.

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Stephen Westerfield
2009 Infiniti M35 | 2007 Honda Fit Sport | 2005 Ford Mustang GT |2000 GMC Sierra |1992 Acura Integra LS | Super Westerfield Bros Acura Integra

from a worker standpoint:
my verdict is still out on the AAO format over split. i think we've been lucky with the past two events in that they had small sites where it didn't take workers long to get to their spots and everyone could hear the horn pretty good.

right now i can't tell if it was the small site and shorter launch intervals lead to the success of the past few events or the AAO format. i'd like to try it at lo'burg to see if we have as much success. my uneducated guess is that we will experience all the same issues as running a split format.

from a driver's standpoint:
i favor the AAO since it keeps everything fresh in my mind.

my final verdict (i guess) is to let the event chairs pick...i think a couple of others have said the same thing. if we do a couple of AAO events at lo'burg and sanford and we like it, then why not?

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05 MCS

Too bad I probably won't be there either.

Besides, I'm well aware of the pitfalls of trying to get workers out on course when it's at an airport. In Laurinburg you often have to walk 5-10 minutes just to get to the station, how on earth can the person way out there get back to get their car in grid if someone hasn't already ponied up an extra 20 minutes for their work assignment.

The math never works out in favor of the drivers after heat #1. Of course, if we go to the AAO format, now I have no choice in the matter (get there early and sign up to work early).

I see a lot of concern for us scaring away novices by "shafting" them with assignment XYZ. I know, let's just let them skip all event duties

That would eliminate the novice cone calls, late novice workers, etc. It would also be all kinds of fun for them!

Last jab...

Using greenville and greensboro as examples for event logistics isn't a good idea. They are much different than airports. Communication is easier at the parking lot sites and distance from point A to point B is shorter.

Scott

No, that is not the solution. I agree that the later work groups are probably "unfair". Life is unfair. Get up earlier and sign up for the first run groups. I think the event chair should be able to select the format they want to run. I see good and bad points to both. I've worked all shifts and while I'd rather work earlier, sometimes it just doesn't work out that way. Oh well , better than real "work"

I prefer the 2+2 format for several reasons:
It's MUCH more conducive to learning and instruction. I think this is one of the strongest aspect of this club and one of the reasons THSCC won the club trophy. Give up this format and you give up the mentor program.
(If you don't like your competition getting extra looks at the course, like it really helps when riding with a novice who can't even find the gates, then BECOME A MENTOR!) Donna and I use the opportunity to ride with and critque each other's runs, this club is the only place we can do that, as well as try to help others novice and old hands alike. I think we actually have many more requests from experienced drivers to ride with them or to ride with us than novices.
It gives everyone an equal opportunity to look at the course and watch other's drive a problematic section as well as discuss it at length. My class is always first out at national events, and I HATE that I can't watch other's run the course first, it really hurts my nationals performance especially since you only get 3 runs to figure it out. That's why I prefer Prosolo, the format is more like the THSCC format where you get to run then watch then run etc. it is much more equal and fun.
The first run group is always the designated course cleaner. All our venues are typically dirty at the beginning of an event and not a lot of fun to drive. If I am forced to take all my runs under those conditions, I'm not going to bother to show up for many events. If I want to slide around on dirt and gravel I'll start rally crossing instead. The 2+2 format gives me an equal chance to drive a course that has been scrubbed off and rubber laid down.

To shorten the work time and running around confusion, use 3 or 4 run groups instead of just two! Two run groups makes too large a grid anyways, and with 3 or 4 run groups no one has to work and drive back to back. Yes you would have to work two sessions rather than just one, but they'd be shorter and broken up.
This would give even more socializing time and aid in getting people to their work assignments as well as having more opportunities for mentoring. The horn worked well for calling people for work, and a sign on the bus could be used to designate which run group is on course. The run groups now are so large I lose track of who is running.

The only major arguments I hear in favor of the AAO format are 1.) it's more like nationals. So what! that exactly what I like about THSCC events is that they AREN'T like nationals. There are but a handful of us that run nationals, and we sure as heck know the difference. The 2+2 format helps me GREATLY for nationals since it provides a learning environment available no where else.
2.) it's easier on the coodinators. If it's too much work, you could always opt to shag cones...
3.) I want to run and go home. Perhaps AX isn't as high on your priorities list as it is for the rest of us. I WANT to spend a whole day relaxing outside doing something different from the rest of my everyday life. I'm in no rush to get home and back to the grind! Those so jaded with AX that they are in a rush to leave seem to be even fewer than the people in the club that do nationals.

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SPIN or WIN!
there's no glory for going slow.

WOW! A civil discussion, Im sooooo proud

Mike W keeps coming back to the same thing. The last 2 events didnt run as smooth because of AAO, its more a function of:

-Launch interval/overlap of ~20-25 seconds
-Courses that were not cone crushing festivals
-Launch interval/overlap of ~20-25 seconds
-Courses that didnt require you the "thread a needle"
-Launch interval/overlap of ~20-25 seconds

I think more emphasis needs to placed on the strong points from the last 2 events. We need GOOD courses, with low cone counts and a reasonable overlap. Everything else is gravy, lets get the mashed 'taters right first

Im not knocking the course designers/event chairs from earlier this year, its not an easy job and Im not the best in the world at it either. Its just that we seemed to get caught up in the frills (Wireless acrobatics, super long L'burg courses, and gimiky elements) that we forget about the basics.

Just my 2 cents, which isnt worth anymore than anyone elses 2 cents that has posted in this thread.

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02 Focus SVT
STF 9

To the first point, actually 99% of the clubs (not jsut nationals) use the AAO format. And there are good reasons as why they do it. It is simple and fair. There is beauty in simplicity. That is why G'ville and NCAC looked so smooth running.

To the second point, there are two people that competitors come in contact with, registration and worker coordinator. If both of those are smooth running and hassle free, that sets the tone for the entire event.

To the third, neither format encourages or discourages people from staying or leaving. Those that abuse the split format to head home early would be bitching if they were running 4th heat and stay the entire event.

It is interesting that those that favor the split format are stating so for their own personal reasons. I don't think any of them addressed the question originally posted. I really do not care which format the club runs. But if I am an event chair, I will opt for AAO because it makes my day a lot easier and more fun.

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

That could be eliminated by stopping the event for five minutes and sending out a guy in a pickup.

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.