THSCC Forums

Say someone treated the NCAC as a first taste of a National-esque event. And let's go out on a limb and say Mikey liked it. Liked it a lot. Much more than cereal.

What would the next steps be if he wanted to go play in the big pond next year?

The real basics are:
1. Re-Up or Join SCCA.

2. Hit at least one Divisional or Tour to avoid getting tagged with an extra $75. Plus it helps with #3. . . .

3. Get as much seat time as possible.

What suggestions do you guys have for a noob looking ahead to 2007?

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Not spectacular just decent.
I'm not sure what I'm driving.
Maybe an ITR in DS.
Or half-assed STX prepped 330.

Well Dave I am in the same boat as you. I was planning on 2006 being my year to go national but schedules have not worked out so well. Basically I would say get as much seat time as you can this year. Start setting the car up to be nationally competitive this year if you can afford to. Also decide do you want to do only National Tour events in preparation for Topeka or do you want to take on some Prosolos and qualify for the ProFinale at the end of the year.

I did all that last year and then nothing came of this year for me except getting a lot more seat time and being very comfortable with my car and knowing how to make any minor setup changes to make the car act like I want on a given surface. Remember most of all have fun.

Just my $0.02. I am sure someone that has been competing nationally can give a better insight than I can.

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2010 Honda Fit Sport
Couple of bicycles

4. Buy a codrive in a nationally prepared car if you're really cereal about hitting Topeka.

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

Well, it helps to start thinking about it right now. And to start saving for it. It is damn near impossible to do it alone. Unless you have very, very deep pockets. So the first thing, start looking for a co-drive or co-driver for 2007.

Then plan on the events you are going to attend through out the year. Make sure they are National or Divisional level events. Maybe figure on slidingup to the DC region to run some of those events. That means you need a contact up there.

Then start budgeting for tires, travel and time off for the 2007 season.

I have now taken you up to mid-January

Another otpion is to run local and take a leap to head out to Topeka in 2007. But you will only end up frustrated and still poor.

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

I do not mean to discourage anyone. If you love this sport, you need to make the trip. It is like a baseball fan visiting the Hall of Fame...you gotta do it at least once.

For all of the disappointment I have gone through out there, it is still an option for one last shot next year. Then wheel-to-wheel racing in 08.

By the way Keith...you ran for Triad at NCAC...what's up with that?

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

David, I think it all depends upon how competitive you want to be. G- Stock currently is chock full of good talent (even if it is a one car show), but for me it was a great learning arena.

Seat time is the most important thing, but it need not be National Level events. My first year I did a single ProSolo and a single Tour event (2001), but I ran about 30 total events that year. I really learned a lot about what I needed to work on. I took a single EVO school, but at the time, wasn't all that impressed with what I learned, so I haven't done one since.

Outside of basic driving skills, preparation for National Events is key. Sure you'd like to be on the freshest tires and have the best equipment, but sometimes that's not possible. Thus, the prep helps a lot:

1) Working on looking ahead as much as possible. Practice this as much as you can at local events.

2) 'Score' your events on 3 runs, even if there are 5 runs to be had. You should not be gaining big chunks between your 3rd-4th or 4th-5th runs. If you do, then you'll realize you need to walk and understand the course better (barring any major poor driving in the first 3 runs: ie.: handling issues or driver induced)

3) Course walks are key. The best drivers locally and Nationally know the course dead nuts. If you can't pick a corner and know where you want the car, then you don't know the course well enough.

Otherwise, buy your membership and hit a tour/pro. Personally, I've decided that unless a Tour is really close, I may just skip them and do the ProSolo's only. The $75 fee is the cost of entry to a Tour, but you skip out on tire costs, fuel getting there, hotels, meals, etc. For a normal Tour, I might spend at least $350 not including any tire purchases.

As a newb to the National level, you will want to hit at least one Tour event to understand the pressure level and format. Things like going to impound after runs and when to grid, etc. It will all be a little intimidating at first.

- AB

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'14 Toyota Sequoia Platinum 4WD
Super Westerfield Bros - '93 Integra - LeChump Du Jour
STX 93 - Scion FR-S

Thanks guys. Keep it coming.

More info:

1. I'm Mr. Smith.
2. I hope to have the car prepped by early next year if things line up right for me. Shocks, exhaust, alignment, and. . .
3. Much more tire budget for next year. I want to be like Carl and Mary and "find" a pair of new 710s under the house.
4. Negotiating a co-driver now to help with the above.
5. After the NCAC, I'm used to getting worked in GS.

Aaron: I think you're the first person who wasn't blown awaay by what they learned at their first Evo. Can you elaborate?

Jim: Sliding up to DC: You mean to get practice at FedEx before the Tour/Pro? So they're member only for events?

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Not spectacular just decent.
I'm not sure what I'm driving.
Maybe an ITR in DS.
Or half-assed STX prepped 330.

You could do like I did and just get Rob Faulkner (McKamey/Evolution instructor, or at least used to be) in your car for a couple of fun runs after an event.

I learned more in that 2 minutes of driving than I did in the 2 previous years. WELL worth the cost (which was free).

The part of "Aaron" will be played by "Richard" for the duration of this post.

David, I did the Phase 1 and 2 school last year. I think the more experienced you are, the fewer "ah ha" moments you will have. I wish I had done Phase 1 years ago. Phase 1 covers much of the same stuff that you will have gotten at THSCC schools. Especially if those schools had instructors that also are Evo teachers or top level drivers that have been there done that. I did have a few "ah ha" moments in Phase 2. In addition to the few ah ha moments, I also got some quality feedback from someone that I felt I should listen to (Evo instructors). Which is what I think Matt is saying.

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Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

National courses will tend to be MUCH bigger than what you ran at GBC, so going to FedEx will give you a feel for running where you are likely to be near/hitting the rev limiter in 2nd thru a 5 or 6 cone slallom etc. and where a foot off the cones will equal seconds of lost time.
As for Evo, I can't speak for Aaron's experience, but I know national champions who go back and take phase1 every couple years. The seat time alone is equal to a season of events and you won't end up just practicing bad habits on your own. Another "hidden" benefit of becoming an Evo alumni is that you can then walk up to any Evo instructor at any event and ask for any type of help you might need. I make it a point to ask a instructor to walk every national course with me to get their take on it, and the Evo course analysis seminar the night before nationals is priceless IMHO! Donna and I have done all phases and taken the challenge school 3 times now, and will do the extreme school as soon as possible.
To paraphrase Jim: Going to Topeka is like a baseball fan getting to PLAY in the World Series. No matter how you finish the experience will be worth it, you'll at least have done something only a small percentage of AXers have done. I'm no where near the caliber of a National Champion and will be driving a decidedly underdog car, but I can't wait to do it again next month!
We went to our first National Tour and Pro in our second season and Nationals in our third. For my money I like Pros a whole lot better than Tours.
If you decide to try to be a major player at Nationals, be prepared for a major commitment of time and money tho.

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SPIN or WIN!
there's no glory for going slow.

Ok let me clear the air in one post and hopefully not pull attention away from the subject of this thread. I chose to run with Triad for a couple reasons. 1. I am a member of both Tarheel and Triad and have been since I moved down here. 2. ES had very good representation from both CCR and Tarheel with only a 3 event novice running for Triad so I felt I could do more good running under points for Triad than for Tarheel.

My decision was not easy as I have many friends in both clubs and don't like choosing sides but in this situation it seemed Triad needed the extra points that I could try and get for them.

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2010 Honda Fit Sport
Couple of bicycles

This is just my 2 cents...There are certainly many approaches one can take in preparing for a trip to Nationals. Option 1: Go all out, do a bunch of events in the season, have a co-driver, prep your car to the max, etc. or 2) Do whatever you can reasonably afford (time, energy, and money) and simply get out there any way you can to see what it's like and to get the experience. Heck, if you have semi-decent tires, can get the time off from work, and can find someone to share hotel cost with, then go out this year. Then, when you go out next year you'd know what to expect (e.g., surface/grip level, format, pressure). One doesn't go to Nationals the first time to kick ass and take home a trophy, you go for the opportunity to learn, drive great courses, benchmark yourself against the best drivers in the country so as to measure your future progress, and have fun.

I started autocrossing in 1994 and went to my first Nationals in 1997. Driving onto Forbes Field in Topeka for the first time and walking the courses was like literally like stepping onto hallowed ground for me. Note: Reason #973 why I'm highly disfunctional I finished last in the Pro Finale and mid-pack (26th) in what was one of the toughest classes there. I was happy with my finish and felt like I drove well. Part of the reason for going to Nationals (or any big event) for the first time is to simply get acclimated to everything regarding the event, so the next time you go there is less "noise" and emotion in your head. Hence, once you become more familiar with your surroundings you can then focus more on your driving.

Part of the reason I'm going this year, even though I seriously considered not going for a variety of reasons, is to learn the new site and surface to better prepare me for the future events out there. Even though I've only run a few events this year and my car now appears to be outgunned in class, Nationals is still the best learning opportunity available in autocross and thus is hard to pass up. Plus, it's just fun to watch all the classes, meet new people, and hang out with your friends.

I agree with Jim and Aaron's comments on how best to prepare. Since it's not always possible to do all that, I just wanted to throw out a different way to look at it. FWIW, there is no doubt in my mind that I had a lot more fun the first year I went to Nationals and got beat pretty bad than any year that I trophied.

Eric

That's why I enjoy going, There's no pressure with no expectations...

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SPIN or WIN!
there's no glory for going slow.

If you think National stuff is for you, seriously consider going to Topeka this year if you can. It may all be a little overwhelming, but it's still worth it.

I jumped straight in and it worked pretty well. I did have the advantage of codriving with Eric, though, which has been great. Basic thing is don't be afraid to ask for help or guidance on what's happening when. National events run a lot like locals with the exception of things being much more rigid.

But I think that if you have the desire, the single best thing you can do for your driving is to go ahead and jump in to heavy competition. Well, that's assuming you don't mind occasionally being last, anyway. I didn't love it, but it happened and I learned from it and moved on. I'm sure it'll happen again sometime, too.


--Donnie

A few additional principles from an old timer which assume your goal is to at least trophy at Nats.:

You need to benchmark your driving against top National Level drivers in "similar" classes.

You need to get seat time on sites with national style courses/grip against top drivers/cars/tires.

You need a competitive car (car and prep level) that you can afford to keep relatively fresh tires on.

You need to get so comfortable driving the car that "you" are always "ahead" of the car.

You need to stay cool under pressure and be able to focus on executing each run better than the last without trying to violate the laws of physics or hoping that cones will magically get out of your way.

Pro Solos can be a great way to really learn what the car can do and what YOU need to do IF the car launches consistently and doesn't kill itself in the process. Nothing like watching someone in an identical car blow your doors off to make you realize that YOU are the problem (been there, done that)

You need to get the car "right" early in the season so you can focus on driving it at its actual limits. Only when you are driving consistently at the car's limits should you attempt to fine tune the car more. These days the best possible setups for most cars are well known and there is much more time in the driver than in a couple of shock clicks or a psi or two.

Dick

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT