THSCC Forums

Doesn't affect MY expectations (can't speak for anyone else, but for me it doesn't), I still compare my time to everybody's at the event. Are you saying it would be realistic for me to expect to catch Mary in HS? I see where I fell in overall pax, I compare myself to Jeb (running my same car in STS), I compare my times to my wife's (just for fun). The numbers are still all there, its about allowing for friendly competition amongst equal level competitors. Improvement comes from realistic expectations and exceeding them. Also, its not all about winning, but it is a little bit, as Patrice stated. . .

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2012 MX-5 Sport SUV

It slows down the learning curve because you're inslulated from the more veteren drivers of the club by fellow TIR fish.

Running in open class, you build a sense of camaraderie with people in your class.

Those people are more than likely running a car similar to yours and arguably have more seat time in said car. Unless they've just blown up a transmission or something, I've yet to encounter a THSCC member that wouldn't lend advice at an event.

I think your arguments are still hung up on being "competitive."

Where a lot of people are coming from here is improving as a driver. That's what leads to being competitive, not classing.

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Not spectacular just decent.
I'm not sure what I'm driving.
Maybe an ITR in DS.
Or half-assed STX prepped 330.

I'm not insulated from them, I know and have talked to Bernie and Mary (I've only talked very briefly to David though), and I can see their times and know where I would have placed. Same with Jeb (who runs my same car and runs in STS).

All that classes have to do with is trophies, it represents nothing else to me really. I still compare myself to cars outside of my class, and I know how to form my expectations based on the cars themselves even, not necessarily the class they are in. Classes in general are there to create pockets of "healthy competition". TIR has that healthy competition, why take that away from us and put us in a class where we won't be able to compete. . .

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2012 MX-5 Sport SUV

This statement in my eyes is false. There is nothing equal level about TIR class.

Put me in an HS Protege and let me run the course. Put me in an AS S2000 and let me run the course. Both cars on the same street tire. I can guarantee I will win in the Protege. Why? For PAX doesn't take into account that these cars are on street tires. - AB

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'14 Toyota Sequoia Platinum 4WD
Super Westerfield Bros - '93 Integra - LeChump Du Jour
STX 93 - Scion FR-S

sounds like you have issue with the numbers chosen for pax indices then, for properly chosen pax indexes would have you TIE if you ran the same course in those two cars. Admittedly, choosing a pax index is an imprecise process, but so is choosing what cars go into what open class. . .

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2012 MX-5 Sport SUV

Classes class cars, not drivers.



Seems that you can do that in open classes.

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

Ah, the semantics argument, ok. . .

Lets change compete to "have a chance to win", you think I can compete/have a chance to win against the mini's on R-compounds in my 400 lb heavier car on street tires? Is that better Webster?

For all the ripping I've gotten for "lack of respect" for people, you guys sure don't respect the intelligence of noobs suggestions very much. So far I've gotten rebutted with a variety of good reasons (the debate continues on), but also have had my wording picked apart (come on, we all know what compete means and what we were talking about) and I've been told that "stock classes have to compete on DOT rubber, whats your problem?" (I think we all know that there is a distinct difference between R compounds and street tires. . .) Guys, I'm not an idiot, lets keep the discussion on a more intelligent level than that. . .

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2012 MX-5 Sport SUV

Just out of curiosity, if you and Jeb have the same car, and you already compare your times with his, and you both have started racing this year, Why don't you race in STS with him? Then you wouldn't have to fish through the results to see how you did.

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Todd Breakey
STS 42 - 1992 Sunburst Miata
Dammit!
"You souldn't play leap frog with a porcupine. You might get hurt." - Eliza

I didn't want to misunderstand what you wrote (you appear to feel that this is a common occurrance with your posts), so I made sure to consult a dictionary. I thought that you, for one, would appreciate the effort.

The biggest hurdle towards you winning is not your car or your tires, it's the loose nut in the driver's seat. It's the same limitation that we all have.

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

because my car, prepped as it is, is not very competitive in STS (pull the driver part out of it, lets talk cars, since thats all thats really relevant to classing, as Wes pointed out). Jeb has a well prepped car for STS (rear bar, suspension work, additional power mods compared to mine), I do not (pretty much stock). With a car as heavy as the Mazda3, mods are necessary to make a competitive STS car as it suffers a significant weight penalty compared to most other cars in STS. . .

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2012 MX-5 Sport SUV

argh, I KNOW I need to improve as a driver, but a classing argument doesn't address the driver skill issue at all, and shouldn't as you yourself pointed out

FACT is, with driver skill held equal, a mini on r-compounds will KILL a mazda3 on street tires, correct me if I'm worng, but the mini cooper is the car to have in HS, and R-compounds are stickier than street rubber by a good bit.

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2012 MX-5 Sport SUV

DING! DING! DING!

So has the little lightbulb clicked over your head Tom and Jerry style, or do you still feel the need for your own little sandbox?

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

what are you trying to say? The classing argument has been over a stock car with street tires not having to run in open class, and having a more sensible class for it. I've yet to hear anyone debate the FACT that a mini on r-compounds would kill a mazda3 on street tires. . .

They are two different things, I will try and address the driver skill thing on my own, but I will also try and class my car where it will be most competitive, b/c as Patrice stated, winning is fun.

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2012 MX-5 Sport SUV

A MINI on r-comps will also kill a Honda Accord on r-comps. Should we create a class for that as well?

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In need of car.

I think that Buckley would beat you in your car as is with you driving a Mini on V710s.

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.