Autocross Performance

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:17 am

that worked.

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

scottjohnson wrote:

In order to go from "zero" to "hero" in the shortest time, buy the cars in the order listed, AWD>FWD>RWD.
Scott

That's the way I read it. Looks like at Laurinburg the playing field gets mote level. But at Sanford/Danville/Greenville the AWD cars stand out.

I think I want an STi for my next car.

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

When you win in an AWD car ... it's all the car

When you win in a FWD car ... it's a combination of the car and driver

When you win an a RWD car ... it's all driver baby

DanDurusky · **Joined:** Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:31 pm **Posts:** 686

thats very interesting.

sadly it seems like even w/ experience, on average the RWD guys never catch the AWD guys.

it also seems that even w/ lots of experience, RWD guys can still do very poorly.

:shock:

i was hoping to see 4WD kick but w/ little experience but then see that RWD would catch up and/or beat 4WD w/ experience.

Patrice Bousquet · **Posted:** Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:23 pm

MikeWhitney wrote:

When you win an a RWD car ... it's all driver baby

And when the engine is in the back it's even more.......

Forget PAX, check under real time what type of car is on top and that will answer the question.

Patrice

Matt McGrain · **Posted:** Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:30 pm

MikeWhitney wrote:

When you win in an AWD car ... it's all the car

When you win in a FWD car ... it's a combination of the car and driver

When you win an a RWD car ... it's all driver baby

I'm yet to drive anyone else's car in fun runs or competition, but I will say that my FWD R is easy to drive once you figure out how to keep it from understeering and finding the right rear pressure to keep the car dancing through slaloms. An LSD always makes the job easier too.

That said, anyone want to test the theory in exhange for swapping a FWD ITR for a RWD **** during fun runs at Sanford?

Les Davis · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:04 pm **Posts:** 2059

Regardless of results, RWD is more "funnerer". Thats all I have to say about that...

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:52 pm

The PAX was developed to eliminate the car from the equation. So to use the PAX to draw any conclusion on car type is futile. Given 99% of the club's AWD cars run in ST classes will cause the numbers to be skewed even more.

Why? Glad you asked...the ST cars run on tires that are similar or equal to the tires the national & divisional competitors (which is what is used to get the PAX) run. Check how many Stock or SP fwd and rwd cars are running on AS06 or V710's with 8-10 runs on them.

And to further dispute being able to draw conclusions from the numbers, none of our sites or courses compare to divisional or national sites or courses. The Laurinburg site is the only one that is even remotely close and you can see how it tends to draw the numbers closer together.

I would wager that the AWD cars will have a decided advantage later in the year at Laurinburg than RWD cars...no local competitor is going to have a fresh set of tires later in the year.

No one takes FWD cars seriously :-)

They were developed simply because they are cheap to make, save interior room and reduce weight. Any manufacture that builds a performance car or sports car from scratch will go with RWD. Some of them are cheaper than others and used live rear axles :lol:

Michael Westerfield · **Posted:** Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:58 pm

Les Davis wrote:

Regardless of results, RWD is more "funnerer". Thats all I have to say about that...

You must be the bestest drivar ever then to pull FTD with the RWD!!1!1!!

Isn't FTD taken 90% of the time with RWD?

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:02 pm

jimpastorius wrote:

Blah, blah, blah PAX SUXBlah, blah, blah PAX SUXBlah, blah, blah PAX SUXBlah, blah, blah PAX SUXBlah, blah, blah PAX SUXBlah, blah, blah PAX SUXBlah, blah, blah PAX SUXBlah, blah, blah PAX SUXBlah, blah, blah PAX SUXBlah, blah, blah PAX SUXBlah, blah, blah PAX SUXBlah, blah, blah PAX SUXBlah, blah, blah PAX SUXBlah, blah, blah PAX SUXBlah, blah, blah PAX SUXBlah, blah, blah PAX SUXBlah, blah, blah PAX SUXBlah, blah, blah PAX SUXBlah, blah, blah PAX SUXBlah, blah, blah PAX SUXBlah, blah, blah PAX SUXBlah, blah, blah PAX SUXBlah, blah, blah PAX SUXBlah, blah, blah PAX SUXBlah, blah, blah PAX SUX

I think you hit the nail on the head here Jim :wink:

David Spratte · **Posted:** Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:05 pm

jimpastorius wrote:

I would wager that the AWD cars will have a decided advantage later in the year at Laurinburg than RWD cars...no local competitor is going to have a fresh set of tires later in the year.

This one might. I'm pretty sure I can shred my Hoosiers by then and jump ship to the V710. Question is, will the 05s get me through the NCAC.

PS: MS sucks harder than PAX.

Michael Westerfield · **Posted:** Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:06 pm

Rick, how hard would it be to re-run the numbers with raw results?

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:16 pm

Ryan Holton wrote:

jimpastorius wrote:

Blah, blah, blah PAX SUX

I think you hit the nail on the head here Jim :wink:

Hmmm, I never said PAX sucks. I simply tried to point out that Rick is using the PAX incorrectly. The PAX was developed to rank drivers and not cars. I would not assume a politician understands these things. They just like to hear themselves talk :-)

What Rick can do is develop a local index assuming all drivers are equal and ranking based upon drive layout. We can have another trophy for that.

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:28 pm

jimpastorius wrote:

I would wager that the AWD cars will have a decided advantage later in the year at Laurinburg than RWD cars...no local competitor is going to have a fresh set of tires later in the year.

I'll dispute that comment - particularly if the NCAC turns into a big deal again (and I think it will). IF I buy any tires this season it will be right before the NCAC. That has me ending the season on better tires then I started with.

Scott

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:41 pm

scottjohnson wrote:

jimpastorius wrote:

I would wager that the AWD cars will have a decided advantage later in the year at Laurinburg than RWD cars...no local competitor is going to have a fresh set of tires later in the year.

I'll dispute that comment - particularly if the NCAC turns into a big deal again (and I think it will). IF I buy any tires this season it will be right before the NCAC. That has me ending the season on better tires then I started with.

Scott

scottjohnson wrote:

jimpastorius wrote:

I would wager that the AWD cars will have a decided advantage later in the year at Laurinburg than RWD cars...no local competitor is going to have a fresh set of tires later in the year.

I'll dispute that comment - particularly if the NCAC turns into a big deal again (and I think it will). IF I buy any tires this season it will be right before the NCAC. That has me ending the season on better tires then I started with.

Scott

That is a pretty big "if". Come the last Laurinburg event, you will have anywhere from 24-30 runs on them. And by PAX standards, they are toast. Thanks for proving my point.

I am not saying that the local AWD ST have the best and freshest tires. All I am saying they are closer to the PAX standard than 24-30 run r-comps and far closer than RWD cars on street tires.

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