Results from 5/12/06 are up...

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Wed May 24, 2006 11:26 am

steve remchak wrote:

Richard Casto wrote:

Brian Herring wrote:

However, there already IS a tire class -- it is called Street Touring

Which is fine and dandy if you have a car that already has other non-stock modifications. However it might be a bit rough for those in Stock cars to just jump directly into their matching ST class. All things being equal, they are going to get just as roughed up as if they ran in Open class with street tires. :roll:

and not enough room in ST classes for upgrades IMHO at least in my car.

Exactly. ST is not a mirror of everything else, but on street tires.

Bernie Baake · **Posted:** Wed May 24, 2006 11:45 am

Carl Fisher wrote:

One thing I would strongly encourage you to do (and it sounds like this is your plan already) is to stay on street tires for at least your first full season, if not longer, even if you choose to compete in H Stock against cars on R-compound tires. Street tires slide more easily, recover more easily, and communicate better than race tires, and will teach you how your car handles (and how to handle your car) much faster than if you jumped right in on race tires.

Hope that helps.

Thats the same info Carl gave Gwen and I last year and we followed it. I believe that it was spot on. Thats the second lesson from the Fisher's this week. (Sundays clinic being the first)

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

oh yeah, I'll be staying on street tires for sure (if for no other reason financial constraints), and keeping everything on the car the same except for the nut behind the wheel, that was my biggest mistake in the integra, I'd change something on the car every month, and each time it was a new learning curve. I'll certainly be aware of all the times people are running, HS, TIR, or otherwise, and use those as baselines as to how well I'm doing. What class I'm in is independent really of my learning, its just a bit more rewarding if I'm moving up places in my class as I cut time, rather than simply being beat by not quite as much.

David Spratte · **Posted:** Wed May 24, 2006 12:28 pm

Carl Fisher wrote:

It seems to me that if you pick someone faster than you as your "mark", then your goal should precisely be to "not be beat quite as bad". If you are truly focused on improving your driving, your ego shouldn't come into the picture.

This is exactly what I did my first real season. Chased Jim and the Alien in an underprepared ES Miata on Azenis. Never caught them. Never even got close enough to see their dust trail. In fact, I was beat like a rented Hyundai.

Learned a boatload though. Internet flamefests aside, I think you'd be hardpressed to find a group of people who compete at this high a level and be so willing to share/teach/instruct etc. The Jims were great competitors and were usually willing to offer suggestions. Carl and ME: Same deal. Great people and willing to share set-up, driving, whatever.

I'm back this year. Turnout in GS is abysmal. Doesn't matter Scott and Sally are the yardstick. If I get close enough to read their plate number I've accomplished something. Speaking of which will the Johnsons be making an appearence at Sanford?

You've got lots of people throwing advice at you, but Carl nailed it here. Go run TIR, bag your magnets, but if you want to improve pick a mark that's beating you regularly.

Brian Herring · **Posted:** Wed May 24, 2006 12:42 pm

David Spratte wrote:

You've got lots of people throwing advice at you, but Carl nailed it here. Go run TIR, bag your magnets, but if you want to improve pick a mark that's beating you regularly.

I would have to agree -- great advice here. Essentially, that is what I *try* to do. Lots of really fast people to try to keep up with in THSCC.

- dow

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Wed May 24, 2006 12:48 pm

David Spratte wrote:

If I get close enough to read their plate number I've accomplished something. Speaking of which will the Johnsons be making an appearence at Sanford?

This pair plans to be there unless it's too hot for the little one. If that's the case then maybe one of us will still make the event.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Wed May 24, 2006 1:21 pm

BriceJohnson wrote:

oh yeah, I'll be staying on street tires for sure (if for no other reason financial constraints), and keeping everything on the car the same except for the nut behind the wheel, that was my biggest mistake in the integra, I'd change something on the car every month, and each time it was a new learning curve. I'll certainly be aware of all the times people are running, HS, TIR, or otherwise, and use those as baselines as to how well I'm doing. What class I'm in is independent really of my learning, its just a bit more rewarding if I'm moving up places in my class as I cut time, rather than simply being beat by not quite as much.

bubba, take this in the spirit intended. you finished 88th overall raw. i beleive TIR would be a competitive class for you.

not to dredge up the past but it was generally agreed that consistant placement in the top 45 slots and up meant you were not so much a novice anymore. personally i may never place higher than 75 raw.

and i totally agree with these guys that open class is more competitive. we are talking hundreths of seconds seperating positions. but this is a consistant scenario, event after event, with the same individuals clocking similar times. no doubt a watermark to work towards. it will be there no matter what class you run in. steve

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

steve remchak wrote:

bubba, take this in the spirit intended. you finished 88th overall raw. i beleive TIR would be a competitive class for you.

exactly, I finished last in HS by a long shot, but in TIR, i would have trophied. Realistically, I think TIR is a great class for me. Even if it is NOV2, thats exactly what I need. . .

MartynWheeler · **Joined:** Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:30 pm **Posts:** 303

If you can beat Mike Greene in TIR you'll be doing well. Don't know how much of a season he'll be running this year, but he'd make a good yardstick. He's even in HS-TIR as well, a direct comparison for you. He's no novice, even if he has just come back from a five-year break.

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Wed May 24, 2006 2:29 pm

BriceJohnson wrote:

exactly, I finished last in HS by a long shot, but in TIR, i would have trophied. Realistically, I think TIR is a great class for me. Even if it is NOV2, that’s exactly what I need. . .

If you run in an open class and are getting beat but show enthusiasm and are at the events, the drivers in your class will make it point to help you. This goes for local, divisional and national levels. This occurs until you start beating them :-)

An aside...my first ProSolo was in a 92 Miata. I got smacked around like ButterBean. But I made friends and had some of the very best drivers in the country helping me out as I progressed.

Now you jump in the TIR mixing bowl, you kind of get lost. And the level of driver in TIR is not what you will be running against and getting help in an open class.

For the reasons stated above...I think it is a bad ideal for the "X" class. If you have an "X" class there should be no year end trophies.

So you have to ask yourself...what is more important, becoming a good driver or a magnet for our frig?

DanDurusky · **Joined:** Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:31 pm **Posts:** 686

*plays devil's advocate*

losing sucks. so run TIR until its no fun (you beat up on everybody) and then move on to the next objective. open class.

its not like you cant compare times with and seek the help of good open class folks if you run TIR. run TIR, improve, ask carl, emmie, bernie, gwen, dave, etc for setup help/advice, improve, see your rankings go up, improve, have fun, improve, improve, improve, etc. then go run in open class.

you guys are making it sound like he's gonna rot to death in TIR class. seat time = improvement and TIR is seat time thats fun for him. i dont see the problem

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

Ban X class!

300+ treadwear requirement in TIR class!

Robert Plank for president!

Brian Herring · **Posted:** Wed May 24, 2006 3:43 pm

MikeWhitney wrote:

Ban X class!

300+ treadwear requirement in TIR class!

Robert Plank for president!

Just because I would like to understand:

- If banning <certain PAX class> was a popular thought by the 'majority' members, wouldn't it hold true that <all PAX classes> should be removed, and eveyone should run in their stock SCCA classes?

I apologize as I know that this is a huge running debate, but to me, it seems if you say "Ban X class" (even in jest), it would seem more appropriate to just state "ban PAX classes".

That is a swooping generalization with multiple impacts, but the root reasoning for all relative proponents would be to repopulate all SCCA classes with the correct competitors, correct?

Seems like this would better follow the general THSCC KISS methodology.
- dow

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Wed May 24, 2006 3:46 pm

There is really only one reason I run X class: I can whore a ride and still compete for year end points. If my co-driver was able to go to more events, I would run BS open, for there's good competition there. - AB

Jason Mauldin · **Posted:** Wed May 24, 2006 3:48 pm

I run X class because I like coming in last place!

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