Course Worker Issues

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

I loved the course, the site, the weather, it was great, EXCEPT one thing, and one BIG thing.

I was just a bit too late to sign up for working heat two, so I got stuck running heat 4, which is fine, you snooze, you lose. This is my problem though. I ran grid A in heat 3, as I should have, and reported to the workers station as I should. I was sent out to work grid B of heat 3, as well as the two grids from heat 4. In all, I had to work the course for OVER TWO HOURS STRAIGHT! My wife was working the station with me, I sent her back to our shelter after an hour since we were both burning to a crisp (even though we had 60 spf sunblock on) and dehydrated as can be.

I was trying to be a good citizen by reporting early to the worker station, and I told him "we'll be on the grass right over here, let us know when the 4th heat starts". My reward for being a good citizen was to work about twice as long as any other course workers for the day. Don't get me wrong, overall, a great event, but if you have someone being diligent and responsible, don't punish them by sending them out there early, thats crap. What you're basically telling people by doing that is what you SHOULD do is wait until the bus claims they are about to erase your times, THEN report to the worker station.

Chris Brown · **Posted:** Mon May 22, 2006 8:56 am

BriceJohnson wrote:

I loved the course, the site, the weather, it was great, EXCEPT one thing, and one BIG thing.

I was just a bit too late to sign up for working heat two, so I got stuck running heat 4, which is fine, you snooze, you lose. This is my problem though. I ran grid A in heat 3, as I should have, and reported to the workers station as I should. I was sent out to work grid B of heat 3, as well as the two grids from heat 4. In all, I had to work the course for OVER TWO HOURS STRAIGHT! My wife was working the station with me, I sent her back to our shelter after an hour since we were both burning to a crisp (even though we had 60 spf sunblock on) and dehydrated as can be.

I was trying to be a good citizen by reporting early to the worker station, and I told him "we'll be on the grass right over here, let us know when the 4th heat starts". My reward for being a good citizen was to work about twice as long as any other course workers for the day. Don't get me wrong, overall, a great event, but if you have someone being diligent and responsible, don't punish them by sending them out there early, thats crap. What you're basically telling people by doing that is what you SHOULD do is wait until the bus claims they are about to erase your times, THEN report to the worker station.

Brice, sorry to hear about your experience...it's kind'a a fact of life that first heat works less and fourth heat works more. We have to allow a bit of overlap for worker exchanges to give people enough time to get their cars ready. This is why first heat always fills up first, and people show up early to get those spots.

Hopefully, the work evens out as the season progresses...maybe you'll get to work first heat next event.

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Mon May 22, 2006 9:08 am

Chris Brown wrote:

Brice, sorry to hear about your experience...it's kind'a a fact of life that first heat works less and fourth heat works more. We have to allow a bit of overlap for worker exchanges to give people enough time to get their cars ready. This is why first heat always fills up first, and people show up early to get those spots.

Hopefully, the work evens out as the season progresses...maybe you'll get to work first heat next event.

I was working grid for heat 2 and the worker call went out before I sent the first car from line B. I was kinda floored by that. I think more attention has to be paid to when workers are being sent out. This is especiality true when we have 5 runs.

The concept of line A and B to allow plenty of time for workers to get their cars ready. Workers coming off of the course will have at least 30-35 minutes to get their cars to line B.

There is no reason to send workers out until the line 3 has made 75% of their runs. You can start making worker calls before then, but why send them out?

Rick Butters · **Posted:** Mon May 22, 2006 9:26 am

I agree with jim that we sent afternoon workers out too early. I worked grid for run group 4, and the call went out for group 4 workers before group 3b had completed their first runs.

Chris Brown said:

Quote:

it's kind'a a fact of life that first heat works less and fourth heat works more.....

Hopefully, the work evens out as the season progresses...maybe you'll get to work first heat next event.

This would be nice is true, but because stock always runs in group 1 and 3, then by definition stock also always works group 2 and 4. So stock always gets the long session (4) and never gets the short session (1).

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

Chris Brown wrote:

Brice, sorry to hear about your experience...it's kind'a a fact of life that first heat works less and fourth heat works more. We have to allow a bit of overlap for worker exchanges to give people enough time to get their cars ready. This is why first heat always fills up first, and people show up early to get those spots.

I realize I should have signed up earlier to get the first heat. This is a system that rewards proper action. If you get there early and show that you want to work, you are rewarded. The problem I had is the fact that I was effectively punished for showing up early for the time I HAD signed up for. There was no reason to send a worker for heat 4 out when the second grid for heat 3 was just STARTING to run. The worker coordinator sould know what heat/grid is running, and schedule accordingly. Wait until near the end of heat 3 and send the workers out for the heat that they signed up for, period, this is not a "fact of life", this is poor scheduling. I guess now I know that if I get stuck signed up working the last heat, I shouldn't report to the worker coordinator until my name is called over the radio threatening to erase my times as that will minimize the time that I have to work. (I'm not actually going to do that, just telling you what your system is incentivizing).

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Mon May 22, 2006 9:56 am

Not to slight Brice's concerns or other workers who pulled a longer shift, but being the WC is *the* worst job in the club IMO. If you think it's not, volunteer to do it next season and you'll be surprised.

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

BriceJohnson wrote:

I shouldn't report to the worker coordinator until my name is called over the radio threatening to erase my times as that will minimize the time that I have to work. (I'm not actually going to do that, just telling you what your system is incentivizing).

Here's a suggestion for everyone, and what most people I know do: Watch the B line. When cars start to disappear from it and not return, report to work.

If this is the biggest gripe about this event, I'd say it was a HUGE success! Thanks to the officers, event chairs, volunteers, and everyone who made it happen!

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Mon May 22, 2006 10:16 am

Even though I wasn't at the event (I was at the wedding of Marcus McCrae's brother and neither of us knew we were going to the same wedding

), I'd like to provide some insight:

This is not just a THSCC problem. About every club I run with has this issue, including the SCCA National Tour/ProSolo events. If the group calls the workers when it's the proper time, then they potentially have to hold up the event due to worker changes, for you never get everyone running up there to work when called. If they call too early but don't send them out, the workers disperse and you run into the same problem. Thus, calling workers early and sending them out as they come up is the only option.

The only way to avoid being out there 'too long' is to do what Mike said and watch the grid to figure out when to go out. Problem is, if you get out there on time you still may end up with a person late to work for the following heat, thus causing you to stay out there longer. - AB

Gwen Habenicht · **Posted:** Mon May 22, 2006 10:16 am

BriceJohnson wrote:

I loved the course, the site, the weather, it was great, EXCEPT one thing, and one BIG thing.

I was just a bit too late to sign up for working heat two, so I got stuck running heat 4, which is fine, you snooze, you lose. This is my problem though. I ran grid A in heat 3, as I should have, and reported to the workers station as I should. I was sent out to work grid B of heat 3, as well as the two grids from heat 4. In all, I had to work the course for OVER TWO HOURS STRAIGHT! My wife was working the station with me, I sent her back to our shelter after an hour since we were both burning to a crisp (even though we had 60 spf sunblock on) and dehydrated as can be.

I was trying to be a good citizen by reporting early to the worker station, and I told him "we'll be on the grass right over here, let us know when the 4th heat starts". My reward for being a good citizen was to work about twice as long as any other course workers for the day. Don't get me wrong, overall, a great event, but if you have someone being diligent and responsible, don't punish them by sending them out there early, thats crap. What you're basically telling people by doing that is what you SHOULD do is wait until the bus claims they are about to erase your times, THEN report to the worker station.

Brice, There's really no one in the club that hasn't been in the position you found yourself in yesterday. I've just never really seen it in print before. I worked a station in Laurinburg last year alone for nearly 3 hours and Kevin Butler was kind enough to come out with Gatorade and water! (Remember Kevin?) I thought it was GREAT! Here I was, new to the sport and being a part of things! With Bernie as Worker Coordinator I could probably get a more “cushy” desirable job. I actually like working a station. You get to watch the runs, and I think there’s lots to be learned from that. This is an adult sport. It’s not the Worker Coordinator’s job to go “find workers” when it’s their time to work. It’s the worker’s responsibility to watch the grid and know when it’s time to head out to a station. The nature of the beast is that if you run stock in Heats 1 and 3, you’re “doomed” to work Heats 2 or 4. AND, since more cars run in 2 and 4, workers of those heats work a little longer. I usually check in, take note of where they are on the grid and do the math of how much longer “B” will be running in that heat. Then I head to our set up, get my “worker station gear” and head out. If I relive someone a little early, OK, maybe he’ll think to do the same for me the next time. If you wait until the end of “B” to go out, the next Heat can’t start since half of them are the ones working the course. The only other way to do worker changes would be not to do flying changes, but take a 15 minute break between each heat. That would add an hour to the day, which for me is a non starter! I like the way THSCC does this compared to the other clubs we run in. At other clubs you run AND work in the morning, and you run AND work in the afternoon. At least in our club you have one Heat free. And, if you think you were hot and dry yesterday…just wait for June, July and August! Here’s my worker station gear list: hat, suntan spray,6 pack cooler with ice, at least 3- 32 oz waters/Gatorade, and a towel to soak in ice and keep around my neck. OK, so it’s a little like packing for a short trip…..but worth having for the summer autoXs. There are a lot of great people in our club who work throughout the day so that we can enjoy this sport. My thanks to all of them for the jobs they do.

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Mon May 22, 2006 10:19 am

BriceJohnson wrote:

I realize I should have signed up earlier to get the first heat. This is a system that rewards proper action. If you get there early and show that you want to work, you are rewarded. The problem I had is the fact that I was effectively punished for showing up early for the time I HAD signed up for. There was no reason to send a worker for heat 4 out when the second grid for heat 3 was just STARTING to run. The worker coordinator sould know what heat/grid is running, and schedule accordingly. Wait until near the end of heat 3 and send the workers out for the heat that they signed up for, period, this is not a "fact of life", this is poor scheduling. I guess now I know that if I get stuck signed up working the last heat, I shouldn't report to the worker coordinator until my name is called over the radio threatening to erase my times as that will minimize the time that I have to work. (I'm not actually going to do that, just telling you what your system is incentivizing).

You checked in to work, but you also chose to go out early. The only reason we have our current system is because over the years teh average autocross competitor has shown that they can't handle responsibility. There is demand for spoon feeding, and it works, so that is what we do.

After checking in to work, you could have wandered over to the grid person and asked, "How many runs have the cars in lane B taken?" If the answer was "None" then you head back to your pit space for some water and rest. After a little while you report to work.

Unfortunately, that scenario actually involves paying attention, and that is something *many* folks can't seem to handle. The distractions of an average AX event are just too great.

The result is that we call for workers early and we end up getting everyone switched out in a fairly timely fashion and the event finishes on time. The experienced folks know how long to wait before heading out to work, and the inexperienced folks learn in a hurry!

It's really a great time if you survive pledge week!

Scott

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

I in no way meant to imply that the event was poorly managed as a whole, in fact, quite the contrary. I enjoyed the hell out of it, and so did my wife, it was her first autocross running her new car, and she had a blast. As is always the case with web forums, the complaints get blown up way more than the complements, and I must say again, it was a GREAT event (one of my favorite sites, and a great course layout).

It just seems like a simple thing, if someone signed up to work heat 4, don't send them out there early if you know that heat 4 is still a long ways away. I find it hard to believe that the worker coordinator job would lose track of what heat/grid it is. I fully acknowledge that it is a difficult job though, I was trying to make it easier on them (hey, I'm reported, I'm sitting right over here 20 ft away from where you are so that when you need me, I'm available). Its frustrating to me b/c it seems like I was punished (it was in no way his intention, thats just how it worked out) for showing up early.

Perhaps the simplest way to mitigate this problem would be to post clearly what heat/grid is running at the time, so that we have a better indication of when we need to report, I found myself many times trying to analyze what cars were on the grid to figure out what heat/grid we were on, when if it were simply posted at the bus, it would have been a lot easier. Didn't there used to be a little wheel that you used for this or am I mixing this up with Triad?

As far as me "choosing" to go out there early, that was hardly the case. I indicated that I was available, and was told "he's going out there now, go join him", not "consider what heat we are on and when you are assigned to work and report at the appropriate time". I guess now I know that the worker coordinators statements are merely suggestions (again, exagerating to prove my point, I'm just showing what your system incentivizes, and how it punishes those who do exactly what you want, and rewards those that try and stretch the rules).

Michael Westerfield · **Posted:** Mon May 22, 2006 10:24 am

Vincent Keene wrote:

Not to slight Brice's concerns or other workers who pulled a longer shift, but being the WC is *the* worst job in the club IMO. If you think it's not, volunteer to do it next season and you'll be surprised.

Brice for Worker co-ord next year.

WC is the worst job...

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Mon May 22, 2006 10:37 am

Michael Westerfield wrote:

Vincent Keene wrote:

Not to slight Brice's concerns or other workers who pulled a longer shift, but being the WC is *the* worst job in the club IMO. If you think it's not, volunteer to do it next season and you'll be surprised.

Brice for Worker co-ord next year.

WC is the worst job...

I would rather be portrayed as a gay cowboy on every dash plaque for the rest of my life than be WC again.

THSCC WC 2004

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Mon May 22, 2006 10:38 am

I would like to see this thread broken out from the event discussion. The event was by far the best of the year. The course was awesome and the coordination was great. I don't think the course working change over is any reflection on this event. This has been a long time issue.

At Laurinburg, Mitch reported to the starter position before I started the b line. I told him he was way too early. So he went back and grabbed lunch and was still back in plenty of time.

I think it is the easy way out to put the onus on the participants. That is a cop out. We had 25% of the participants as novices!!! We are hell bent on making our club the most novice friendly club in the country. And then turn around and say they should figure all of this worker change over on their own.

It is not their lack of attention that dooms them. It is their enthusiasm that they are being punished for.

Why have a bunch of people bothering grid, when all it takes is the WC checking the line and making the appropriate call? The NC's can stress that when the call goes out for workers, they have 5 minutes to check in. Probably a little easier than explaining that you need to check in and watch grid or find the grid worker and then estimate the time the left so you don't get stuck out there for 2 plus hours :-)

Why not switch things up a little and have stock run 2 and 4? Why should one group be stuck working 4th heat for the last 5 years?

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

I feel like my comments are being misperceived here. The worker coordinator did a great job, in that workers reported on time and the event ran very smoothly. Mine is a minor issue, but a systemic problem.

At the core of it all, you should design a system that rewards the behavior which you would hope to have. The "Mike Whitney" approach is what leads to the unneccesarily early calls for workers, b/c it causes people to try and wait it out until the last minute to minimize their time working. The "scottjohnson" approach suggests that you take worker coordinator statements to be merely suggestions. Neither of these is what you are trying to do. Its confusing for newer people to figure out what heat we are on b/c they must determine the heat based on what class of cars are running currently. The grid is ALWAYS full until the very end, so that is little indication as to what heat/grid you are on.

I'm NOT unhappy with the event yesterday, but if you ask how it went, I'll tell you it went great except for this one problem. I wanted to explain what the problem was to try and come up with some ideas. My first suggestion was for the worker coordinator to not send workers out there when they know its not their heat yet. This lumps more work on an already overworked person, I understand that now, so my suggestion is merely to bring back some clear indication as to what heat/grid we are on so that noobs can take the "Mike Whitney" approach to reporting for worker assignments, but without having to know exactly what the fixed run groups are and which class runs when.

Lets try and take the fraternity nature of this OUT of the equation, unless that is your intention (to make the pledges work longer). I certainly don't think that is the case, given how friendly and receptive people in the club have been to me and my wife, so in that spirit, lets try and make things easier for them/us to understand. All it requires is an indication of where we are in the event timeline. On that note, if the old wheel no longer exists, I would be glad to make one for us to indicate what heat/grid we are on if we could use it.

I also agree with jims suggestion of breaking this discussion out into another thread, I've started it under the title "Run group/heat wheel to help noobs". My complaint is giving many the perception that I was unhappy with the event. It was one of the best events I've ever been to, and I don't want this one nit to take over the discussion from the event (in the past I've been smart enough to sign up for working the early heat), b/c there are many other good things to discuss (how I was able to get home BEFORE dinner while still getting 5 runs is AWESOME)!

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