November night series results are posted

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Mon Nov 17, 2003 10:59 am

http://www.thscc.com/autocross/events/2 ... index.html

November results are up. Jim P won open class and Tom H won Tire class.

Two of the top 3 tire drivers were not on tires that are considered "cheater tires", Tom was on Bridgestone S03 and Dan was on OEM STi tires. Tom ran virtually identical times on the stock STi tires in Dan's car as he did in his car on the S03's.

Mike W. closed my 12 point lead down to 1.

Scott

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

For those of you who don't want to move from TIR to Open class because you'll get spanked...

Had I run STS/Open, I would've won by 0.4 sec - but instead I wound up 6th in TIR class. Do I care? A little. Did I still have lots of fun, even though I got spanked? Yep.

Great adaptation of the course to our lot, really enjoyed it!

:clap:

Oh, and pics will be up sometime soon; forgot to bring the CD to work so I could process/upload...

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Mon Nov 17, 2003 2:00 pm

scottjohnson wrote:

Two of the top 3 tire drivers were not on tires that are considered "cheater tires", Tom was on Bridgestone S03 and Dan was on OEM STi tires. Tom ran virtually identical times on the stock STi tires in Dan's car as he did in his car on the S03's.Scott

But 6 of the top 8 were on the tires that should be excluded from our regular season TIR class. And who is to say if the S03 would not make the exclusion list. The way I see the data, you have one of two options to be competitive in TIR: buy special tires or an STi. I would opt for the money saving, buy special tires

Ain't data manipulation great.

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Mon Nov 17, 2003 2:06 pm

I wouldn't make too many assumptions about R tires vs. semi R tires vs. normal high performance tires based on an event where the air and pavement temps were in the 40's. Note how slow the Radical on Hoosier R45 slicks was. Even though Matt is new to the car I'm sure tire heat (lack of) was a big part of his performance. In September I was around 3 seconds faster with my CM car (on very old slicks) than the fastest "normal car". I'm sure Matt would have been significantly faster in warmer temps.

By the way, I'm still trying to figure out why both Les and Mike were faster than me. (they drove Les's Mustang and I drove mine). Both are still stock. The tires were the same OEM GY's and I actually have a little more neg camber than Les has. If anyone watched our runs and can give me a hint as to where the Red car was slower than the Grey car so I can improve my driving I would appreciate it!!!

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

And my cheater tires were busted Friday night (about equal in grip to the 400 treadwear A/S tires I replaced them with on Saturday) - so there might've been 2 out of the top 3 on cheater tires (Mike & myself) + one national champion-caliber driver on "almost cheater" tires.

:wink:

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

Dick - you matched Les' time, but you chose the wrong PAX index. Should've been STX, since you were on street tires. That's how he got you...

:wink:

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Mon Nov 17, 2003 2:17 pm

Kevin Allen wrote:

Dick - you matched Les' time, but you chose the wrong PAX index. Should've been STX, since you were on street tires. That's how he got you...

:wink:

Kevin,

Actually he was a tad quicker than me on the official runs and then both he and Mike turned 39.7's or so in fun runs which I couldn't match. Combine that with the fact that my "ego" and "reputation" both say I should be "faster" means that I was "slow".

Remember my attitude is to make a car faster, make the driver faster first.

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

DickRasmussen wrote:

Kevin Allen wrote:

Dick - you matched Les' time, but you chose the wrong PAX index. Should've been STX, since you were on street tires. That's how he got you...

:wink:

Kevin,

Actually he was a tad quicker than me on the official runs and then both he and Mike turned 39.7's or so in fun runs which I couldn't match. Combine that with the fact that my "ego" and "reputation" both say I should be "faster" means that I was "slow".

Remember my attitude is to make a car faster, make the driver faster first.

Dick - I never had the chance to watch your or Les' runs in detail, but I can tell you that I have had a TON of seat time this year - that was my 19th autocross this year! - and I bet that has a lot to do with it. Lots of practice keeps a driver sharp.

If you had been autocrossing as much recently, I bet you would have had something for us

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Mon Nov 17, 2003 2:36 pm

For what it's worth, Les's car is probably up about 30+ hp over Dick's.

The Hogh flow exhaust, the X-pipe and the high flow (dual) cat's might be just enough to make a difference.

Riding with Les, I can vouch for the fact that he was spinning the tires from the launch all the way to the braking zone for the first turn. It was pretty entertaining!

Scott

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Mon Nov 17, 2003 2:45 pm

Kevin Allen wrote:

And my cheater tires were busted Friday night (about equal in grip to the 400 treadwear A/S tires I replaced them with on Saturday) - so there might've been 2 out of the top 3 on cheater tires (Mike & myself) + one national champion-caliber driver on "almost cheater" tires.

:wink:

How did you move up to the top 3? :lol:

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Mon Nov 17, 2003 3:02 pm

scottjohnson wrote:

For what it's worth, Les's car is probably up about 30+ hp over Dick's.

The Hogh flow exhaust, the X-pipe and the high flow (dual) cat's might be just enough to make a difference.

Riding with Les, I can vouch for the fact that he was spinning the tires from the launch all the way to the braking zone for the first turn. It was pretty entertaining!

Scott

Scott,

I'm not sure the Stang would get that much power from the exhaust mods on a stock motor (other than on an Ad writer's dyno) but even so, due to the wheelspin issues most of the time I'm not sure the HP is the difference. I forgot to turn traction control off for one run . . . added about 1.5 seconds to my time even though I tried to minimize wheelspin once I realized that the missfire was TC

Did Les shift to second after the first corner and if so, did he down shift for the tight left before the slalom? Did he down shift for the tight right at the top of the hill? The reason for asking is I used 2nd and therefore may have missed out on some power induced rotation in the tight corners.

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

Quote:

How did you move up to the top 3?

Subtract a second for tires with grip (instead of the slippery tires I was using).

(38.997 - 1 sec (for grippy tires) ) * 0.818 (DSP pax) = 31.082, or 3rd place.

Actually, 0.515 sec off my raw time would've done it for me - which I have no problem blaming on the tires based on their level of grip Friday night. :lol:

(that's right, when I'm slow, it's never my fault!)

And Peter actually brought his nice, fresh Azeni with him, in case we needed to use them - but I was too lazy to swap.

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Mon Nov 17, 2003 3:43 pm

[quote="DickRasmussenI'm not sure the Stang would get that much power from the exhaust mods on a stock motor (other than on an Ad writer's dyno) but even so, due to the wheelspin issues most of the time I'm not sure the HP is the difference. I forgot to turn traction control off for one run . . . added about 1.5 seconds to my time even though I tried to minimize wheelspin once I realized that the missfire was TC

Did Les shift to second after the first corner and if so, did he down shift for the tight left before the slalom? Did he down shift for the tight right at the top of the hill? The reason for asking is I used 2nd and therefore may have missed out on some power induced rotation in the tight corners.[/quote]

Les was shifting to 2nd after the first turn (about half way to the tight turn around), he never went back to first (not that I recall).

I know that Les has before and after 1/4 mile runs with his mods and it made a significant (almost 1/2 second? difference). I'm sure he will chime in.

Scott

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Mon Nov 17, 2003 3:48 pm

All I know is that in Joel's car I was spinning the tires anywhere I wanted

I was short shifting prior to the first corner, and lighting them up all the way down the front stretch. Even in the box turn, I was lighting them up going down the hill. That car is a lot of fun

My apologies to all the course workers. - AB

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Mon Nov 17, 2003 3:55 pm

Kevin Allen wrote:

Subtract a second for tires with grip (instead of the slippery tires I was using).

(38.997 - 1 sec (for grippy tires) ) * 0.818 (DSP pax) = 31.082, or 3rd place.

Actually, 0.515 sec off my raw time would've done it for me - which I have no problem blaming on the tires based on their level of grip Friday night. :lol:

(that's right, when I'm slow, it's never my fault!)

And Peter actually brought his nice, fresh Azeni with him, in case we needed to use them - but I was too lazy to swap.

Cool...now we have the KAX (Kevin's Autocross Index) :lol:

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