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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:20 pm 
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street tires suck
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Andy Hollis' top ten tips:

1] Position first, then speed. Positioning the car perfectly is more important than trying to attain the highest potential speed. For example, you will drop more time by correctly positioning the car nearer to slalom cones than you will by adding 1 or 2 MPH in speed. Same with sweepers (tight line). Same with 90-degree turns (use all of the track). Also, position is a prerequisite for speed. If you are not in the correct place, you will not be able go faster. Or at least not for very long!

2] Turn earlier...and less. To go faster, the arc you are running must be bigger. A bigger arc requires less steering. To make a bigger arc that is centered in the same place, the arc must start sooner (turn earlier).

3] Brake earlier...and less. Waiting until the last possible second approaching a turn and then dropping anchor at precisely the correct place so that the desired entry speed is reached exactly as you come to the turn-in point is quite difficult to execute consistently. Especially when you consider that you get no practice runs on the course, and the surface changes on every run, and you aren't likely to be in exactly the same position with the same approach speed on every run, etc. Better to start braking a little earlier to give some margin of error. And by braking less you can either add or subtract braking effort as you close in on the turn-in point. This will make you consistent and smooth.

4] Lift early instead of braking later. Continuing with the philosophy of #3, when you need to reduce speed only a moderate amount, try an early lift of the throttle instead of a later push of the brake. This is less upsetting to the car, is easier to do and thus more consistent, and allows for more precise placement entering the maneuver (remember #1 above).

5] Easier to add speed in a turn than to get rid of it. If you are under the limit, a slight push of the right foot will get you more speed with no additional side effects. On the other hand, if you are too fast and the tires have begun slipping, you can only reduce throttle and wait until the tires turn enough of that excess energy into smoke and heat. Don't use your tires as brakes!

6] Use your right foot to modulate car position in constant radius turns, not the steering wheel. In a steady state turn, once you have established the correct steering input to maintain that arc, lifting the throttle slightly will let the car tuck in closer to the inside cones. Conversely, slightly increasing the throttle will push the car out a bit farther to avoid inside cones. It is much easier to make small corrections in position with slight variations in the tires' slip angle (that's what you are doing with the throttle) than with the steering wheel.

7] Unwind the wheel, then add power. If the car is using all of the tire's tractive capacity to corner, there is none left for additional acceleration. At corner exit, as you unwind the wheel, you make some available. If you do not unwind the wheel, the tire will start to slide and the car will push out (see #6 above).

8] Attack the back. For slaloms (also applicable to most offsets), getting close to the cones is critical for quick times (see #1). To get close, we must move the car less, which means bigger arcs. Bigger arcs come from less steering and require earlier turning (see #2). Now for the fun part... When you go by a slalom cone and start turning the steering wheel back the other way, when does the car start to actually change direction? Answer: When the wheel crosses the center point (Not when you first start turning back!) How long does that take? If you are smooth, it takes .25 - .5 seconds. Now, how long is a typical person's reaction time? Answer: about .5 seconds. Finally, how long does it take to go between slalom cones? Answer: Typically on the order of 1 second. Given all of that, your brain must make the decision to begin turning the steering wheel back the other way just *before* you go by the previous cone!!

Since this is a mental issue, a good visualization technique to get used to this is to think about trying to run over the back side of each slalom cone with the inside rear tire of the car. To hit it with the rear tire (and not the front), the car must be arcing well before the cone and the arc must be shallow. Attack the back!

9] Hands follow the eyes, car follows the hands. 'Nuf said.

10] Scan ahead, don't stare. Keep the eyes moving. Looking ahead does not mean staring ahead. Your eyes must be constantly moving forward and back, and sometimes left and right. Glance forward, glance back. Your brain can only operate on the information you give it.

Bonus Tip: Don't forget the stuff in between the marked maneuvers! Too often we think of a course as series of discrete maneuvers. There is typically more to be gained or lost in the areas that are in between. Pay special attention to the places where there are no cones.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:19 am 
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Good post.

TMI for the Novices though (in my experience).

- dow


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:29 am 
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street tires suck
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Brian Herring wrote:
Good post.

TMI for the Novices though (in my experience).

- dow


yep -- definately too much for a one day novice school. But you can use these tips to find the couple that would be most effective in helping your novice get more comfortable and hopefully faster. :)

adamb

PS - Brian, we should get online for some multiplayer GRAW action. Send me a Friend Request... poiqwe is my gamertag.

http://live.xbox.com/member/poiqwe

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:33 am 
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AdamBreakey wrote:
Brian Herring wrote:
Good post.

TMI for the Novices though (in my experience).

- dow


yep -- definately too much for a one day novice school. But you can use these tips to find the couple that would be most effective in helping your novice get more comfortable and hopefully faster. :)

adamb


Hmm... for me and any Novices I work with, it will be about realizing what they are doing, being aware, and getting them thinking.

I guess Novice school is really about showing them the path, and giving them a good foundation to start from (i.e. Vincent's post about ensuring they realize some of the things they may or may not do are harmful/need to be done).

The 'shifter' thing is big for me, and correct hand steering position are big things. Riding along with Kevin Allen and watching him drive intorduced me to proper shuffle steering and two hands on the wheel ;).

That, and make sure they have fun some they keep coming back. :D

- dow


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:08 pm 
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I keep noticing myself reaching for the shift lever sometimes when there's no reason - especially when rallycrossing. I think it's because I did a few rallyxes and played around some in the dirt with the WRX, and that got me used to having to reach for 1st gear when going into a corner (just about ANY corner). Now I still do it sometimes with the RS, and there's not a corner tight enough anywhere on the planet to need 1st gear in that car. Well, ok, maybe a Jim P. course, but that's the only place. :lol:

I remember several guys who just couldn't stop holding onto the shift lever at schools, though. I ended up sneakily putting my hand on the shift lever after one guy had gotten into 2nd gear and taken his hand off it, so that when he went for the shifter again he put his hand on my hand instead. :lol: Creeped him out enough that he actually stopped going for it at all. 8)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:25 pm 
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Kevin Allen wrote:
I keep noticing myself reaching for the shift lever sometimes when there's no reason - especially when rallycrossing.


In the General you are fighting the wheel with both hands with no time to use the shifter.

Kevin Allen wrote:
...there's not a corner tight enough anywhere on the planet to need 1st gear in that car. Well, ok, maybe a Jim P. course, but that's the only place. :lol:


Good one! :poke:


Kevin Allen wrote:
I remember several guys who just couldn't stop holding onto the shift lever at schools, though. I ended up sneakily putting my hand on the shift lever after one guy had gotten into 2nd gear and taken his hand off it, so that when he went for the shifter again he put his hand on my hand instead. :lol: Creeped him out enough that he actually stopped going for it at all. 8)


Interesting. I've never tried the homophobic approach to get students to keep both hands on the wheel. :shock: Maybe I'll try that next.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:21 pm 
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Vincent Keene wrote:
Interesting. I've never tried the homophobic approach to get students to keep both hands on the wheel. :shock: Maybe I'll try that next.


Image

(and, no, it wasn't me Kevin was referring to)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:34 pm 
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MarcusMcRae wrote:
SimonWright wrote:
Is that a joke Marcus?

I think novices will do better if they have to learn how to read a course without a map. Not all autocrosses have them.

Simon


Nope, I just thought it would be easier after their run to show them where they are making mistakes. I like to look at them right after a run if I am having trouble with a course. It helps me visualize where I did things right and wrong and commit them to memory.

I guess it might be harder for a noob to look at a map and figure out where that is on the course.


Ah, I see. That's where a dusty dashboard comes in handy as a temporary blackboard.

Simon


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:41 pm 
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^^holy shit i just LOLed like a goofball at work.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:53 pm 
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Quote:
Nope, I just thought it would be easier after their run to show them where they are making mistakes. I like to look at them right after a run if I am having trouble with a course. It helps me visualize where I did things right and wrong and commit them to memory.

-Marcus


If you really want to visualize the course, you need to walk it and go over it from memory as many times as it takes to be able to drive it in your head. Not just memorize what cones are where, but actually be able to see the cones coming up and whizzing by in your head and "feel" the car doing what it does.

Course maps are completely useless for that purpose. And if you have to look at one after your first run on the course, you didn't complete step one.

I used to do the visualization thing, but after driving on lots of rallycross courses, which change drastically between every run, I stopped doing that so much and just started concentrating on thinking about what might've changed plus looking WAAAAYYYY ahead. Don't have to worry about the course changing at an autox, so all I do there now is walk the course and memorize the general layout so that I know where to look at all times, then just focus on looking ahead. Yep, I'm slower that way, but it's a lot less work. :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:06 pm 
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AdamBreakey wrote:
PS - Brian, we should get online for some multiplayer GRAW action. Send me a Friend Request... poiqwe is my gamertag.


Slight thread highjack....

Adam and Brian, I am up for some GRAW as well. Gamertag is "Method X". Send me a friend invite. :P

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:30 pm 
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Kevin Allen wrote:
Quote:
Nope, I just thought it would be easier after their run to show them where they are making mistakes. I like to look at them right after a run if I am having trouble with a course. It helps me visualize where I did things right and wrong and commit them to memory.

-Marcus


If you really want to visualize the course, you need to walk it and go over it from memory as many times as it takes to be able to drive it in your head. Not just memorize what cones are where, but actually be able to see the cones coming up and whizzing by in your head and "feel" the car doing what it does.

Course maps are completely useless for that purpose. And if you have to look at one after your first run on the course, you didn't complete step one.

I used to do the visualization thing, but after driving on lots of rallycross courses, which change drastically between every run, I stopped doing that so much and just started concentrating on thinking about what might've changed plus looking WAAAAYYYY ahead. Don't have to worry about the course changing at an autox, so all I do there now is walk the course and memorize the general layout so that I know where to look at all times, then just focus on looking ahead. Yep, I'm slower that way, but it's a lot less work. :lol:


Yeah, I still like to have a map to look at and I rarely get to an event in time to walk the course. I usually mooch a ride along or two to figure out where to go.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:03 pm 
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MarcusMcRae wrote:
Yeah, I still like to have a map to look at and I rarely get to an event in time to walk the course. I usually mooch a ride along or two to figure out where to go.


And all this time I thought you just liked me.

:whoknows:

Simon


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:22 pm 
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A course map in invaluable when communicating between two people. We use them all the time when available to critique our runs. It's nearly useless to say to a novice brake earlier for the Chicago box or you missed that third gate that's off set to the right. Please do try to provide course maps.

Donna and I try to use mentally descriptive (often silly and/or with an over all theme) names for features and try to link features when memorizing a course. It helps in getting a better mental picture of the driving path and eliminates trying to remember every cone on course, especially the meaningless ones. That trick helps us so much that even today I can play back in my head several national event courses from last season and even the season before!
The easiest place to encourage looking ahead is at the start line. I tell my students to look ahead and picture in their mind the path that they will be driving through the first few gates as far ahead as they can reasonably see, and when they should be looking even further down the course. It's a lot easier for them to do it when they are sitting still than at speed and reinforces it's value when they get through that section easier than when they don't look ahead.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:13 pm 
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Rob rode with me alot last season and continually reminded me to take my hand off the shifter.
my other neeewwbie habit was not keeping my foot on the dead pedal. i reached for the clutch for no apparent reason. these two habits seem to tie together. get the shifting done and forget about it. (not totally but you get my point)

CRS will always limit my potential as an autoX'er i am afraid. gots to work on looking ahead.


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