Novice Survey for 2005 Season - Results

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

THSCC Novice Survey for 2005 Season Results

Status

The survey was sent out to about 80 people. I gave everyone a month to respond. Of that 15 responded. A few had already commented in the forum that did not respond. So at best we had 20 replies. 25%. There are no real surprises. Some of those who responded do not post (or possibly read) the forum at all, but most do.

Novice System

• Did you like the Year Long Novice Program (Yes or No) ?

The majority were in favor of this. The reasons for it seemed to fall into not being pressured moving into an Open Class, a safe place to play and learn, and the camaraderie of being together all season. The biggest single reason against it is obvious. Novices who enter the program by mid-season are all but out of the competition. A couple of Novices would have preferred the traditional Novice setup of 3 events and out to open class.

• Should we go back to the old system (you run Novice Class up to 3 events or your 1st trophy and then on to Open Classes. No Year Long Trophy for Novices). (Yes or No) ?

As noted above only a couple of responses felt the old system was better.

• If you like none of the above or would just like to comment or make suggestions specifically about the above please do so here.

A few did mention that splitting the season into 2 halves would help a lot if we continue this approach. There were also some comments about a JV/Varsity type approach that we have discussed in the past. That really fell on the previous idea of NOV and TIR. Some also mentioned no year long trophy at all. Just event trophies.

• Did you attend the Novice School at the beginning of the season? (Yes or No) ?

About half attended the school. The other half started at various points in the season after the school. It was suggested we do at least 2 so that we can catch more mid-season Novices.

• If you did attend the Novice School do you have any comments about it?

The resounding answer is Yes the school helped a lot! Every Novice should want to do this. Also do more of them so newer Novices coming in can go through it. All the Novice Ladies said we must keep the Chic School!

Novice Mentor Program

• Did you participate and use a Mentor this year at any event? (Yes or No) ?

About 15 of the 20 responding used a Mentor. Some were not involved in the program. They were doing what has happened in previous years. A friend took them under their wing. The overall concessus was it was very helpful and removed any intimidation for the new person.

• If Yes, How many times?

This averaged out to about 3 times.

• If No, Why not?

As stated above. Some got friends to help them and got private tutoring. Some did not get a Mentor because there simply were not enough Mentors to go around.

• If you did use this program how would you value it and should we continue to do it?

People who used this and the ones that got private help all agree that a program should be in place to help Novices like this.

• Do you have any suggestions about improving the program?

Send each Novice registered for an event some hyperlinks to the THSCC website about autocross. These are the links already under the Autocross button the site.

Try and match Mentors to Novices before the event (via email).

Mentors and Novices should wear name tags. Easier to find each other and Novices will know who all the Mentors are.

Mentor should be assigned to Novice at the gate and help them throughout the day so they understand the whole autocross thing, not just the driving part. Registration, tech, grid, work shifts, etc.

Make it mandatory for all 1st time Novices and possibly up to 3 events.

General

• Did we forget to ask you something that you would like to comment on?

The grid A and B for run groups and split run groups is confusing.

• Will you be coming back next year? (Yes or No)?

The overwhelming answer was YES!

• If not please share with us why you do not want to continue with this?

The method we run heats and the few number of runs. This person prefers the NASA/SCCA style of do all runs in one heat.

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:20 am

Things have been a little slow...

First, asking people to compare different formats when they have only been exposed to one is a moot point. A better question is how they would improve the year-long novice program to help other novices. There were some interesting points to that question. I would be interested in hearing how the 3-6 event novice could help a newcomer.

I would suggest a novice with 4 or more THSCC events are required to become a mentor to remain in the novice group.

How can we improve communicating our run groups and run order? We all know it is confusing as hell. But a lot of have done it for the last 4 years and are use to it. Maybe get a group of the novices together and have them define it. After 4 years, I still can not document the thing.

I have always wanted to do more novice schools. I think they are single biggest thing in the retention game. We could have any novice class and no mentor, but conduct 3-4 novice schools and increase retention to 25% of more...double what we do now.

But they are a lot of work. I have led them 3 out of the last 4 years. Add the additional expense, it is a chore. I would suggest we have all schools in Sanford to reduce the travel time and cost. I ask of the novices to help secure closer sites. These are new blood and may have contacts that can help. Most of us are a little old and set in our ways.

An additional question that needs to be asked is the exposure the people completeing the survey have wot other clubs. What other clubs and events have they run?

Chuck Frank · **Posted:** Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:56 am

Jim, do you really think a novice with 3-4 events under their belt should be instructing other novices? :shock:

I personally think the grid system is one of the most clearcut and easiest to understand of all the systems I've seen especially for two driver cars, maybe the problem is we need to explain it better at the driver's meeting or better yet print it out on a handout/course map and as part of the info presented to novices as well as on the website. It's always easier to digest a different system/info if you can do it in advance or at your leisure, rather than 5 minutes before participating in it IMHO. The idea of asking (experienced)novices to provide input into clarifying the explanation is a good one, I think we presuppose a lot since we're intimately familiar with the process, kinda not seeing the trees because we're so familiar with the forest...

I've always been of the opinion that we should have a second novice school and move the intermediate school to mid season. Having a school at the end of the season then having to wait 4-5 months to put the info into practice never made a lot of sense to me?

I feel that I was lucky to have found the novice school before it happened the year we started. Would I have just shown up at an AX and joined in without it? probably not, I didn't even know what AX was before the school, and likely would have ended up just frustrated if I had just jumped in!

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:05 am

Chuck Frank wrote:

Jim, do you really think a novice with 3-4 events under their belt should be instructing other novices? :shock:

I personally think the grid system is one of the most clearcut and easiest to understand of all the systems I've seen especially for two driver cars, maybe the problem is we need to explain it better at the driver's meeting or better yet print it out on a handout/course map and as part of the info presented to novices as well as on the website. It's always easier to digest a different system/info if you can do it in advance or at your leisure, rather than 5 minutes before participating in it IMHO. The idea of asking (experienced)novices to provide input into clarifying the explanation is a good one, I think we presuppose a lot since we're intimately familiar with the process, kinda not seeing the trees because we're so familiar with the forest...

I've always been of the opinion that we should have a second novice school and move the intermediate school to mid season. Having a school at the end of the season then having to wait 4-5 months to put the info into practice never made a lot of sense to me?

I feel that I was lucky to have found the novice school before it happened the year we started. Would I have just shown up at an AX and joined in without it? probably not, I didn't even know what AX was before the school!

There is a huge difference between mentoring and instructing. I never said they should instruct. After 3 events or so, most novices have a grasp of what is occuring during the events to help out.

Please write out the instructions to grid. As I mentioned, I have tried to document it and even chart it out, with no luck.

Yes, having more schools is great. But it is time consuming and expensive on the members that do it. Having done it three out of the last four years, I can tell you it is tough to get together. There is a lot of work that goes on behind the scenes. I personally could not do more than 1 a year.

Yes, I never understod why the intermediate school was always last. More it to the test and tune weekend (Saturday school and Sunday T&T). Have a novice school after the second event would be better IMO.

Chuck Frank · **Posted:** Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:17 am

Sorry, I was of the understanding the mentor program included instructing?
Maybe the club should help out with the personal expenses of the school leaders? Pay for a friday night hotel room, a gas stipend and/or a couple free events?

The AX epiphany for me was when I got to ride with Tim Aro during the novice school lunch break!!! Right then I made up my mind I wanted to learn to drive a car like that. That's why I try to invite novices to ride with me and Donna at events, and what I think is lacking in our novice school format.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:02 am

i have said this all year and would like to reiterate my point.

the true challenges involved with being a novice are 60% driving and 40% figuring out what the hell is going on.

without opening the whole can of worms, i think novices need to be walked thru the logistics of an event just as much as the driving technique. the novice school should spend more time on event activity.

my reccollections of my novice school:

1) i got lost getting to L'burg
2) i arrived 5 minutes before close of registration (see #1)
3) i overheard someone say put more air in your tires
4) class started, we split into two groups, some conversation regarding # of events attended etc. walked (?) and drove the long course (twice?)
5) lunch. very good sandwich. remember thinking these guys mght be alright.
6) multiple runs on short course. ahh now this is fun.
7) pack-up, very tired.
8) need directions to hotel (see#1). am told just drive thataway and you'll find it. the name of the road? Quote" hell, i don't know, just go up here and turn left"

point is i survived, and it might sound whiny but the intention was good even though the follow thru wasn't the best. i know those that put on a school bust their asses and i do not mean to detract from those efforts. it might be as simple as putting out a packet similar to the HPDE school.

not all students may need the catering i felt i needed. but if the school were to simulate an actual autoX for say one hour it might be helpful.

just my opinions here, and i hope i did not offend anyone as that was not my intention. steve

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:24 am

You aren't hurting my feelings. Any feedback is a good thing. This year was the first year I did not provide all the information up front. My work and personal situation was at fault Iyea, that is my story and I am sticking to it). Yes, arriving 5 minutes prior to the start of the thing put you behind the 8 ball. Honestly, I am impressed you were able to recover from it.

I think we had 50 novices there...imagine trying to herd cats. It is a lot of work to address all the questions. Additionally, it is quite a bit different than HPDE. I would guess 99% of the AX novices have little or no event experience. How many people attend HPDE event as their first? Plus, when you pay $300 as opposed to $30, you are a little more aware of what is going on.

First thing I would do would be to move the novice school to Sanford. Laurinburg is too far away and in the middle of no where. Sanford is big enough and actually would lend itself a lot better to course layout. If you can't find Sanford, then we have other issues

steve remchak · **Posted:** Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:09 pm

sanford, yes definitely. close, easy to find.

been thinking about this over the afternoon. why not set-up a mock autoX from start to finish? short but moderately technical course. split novices into three groups. one group A grid, one group B grid, and one group workers. this would explain grid, cone counts, course work, safety, radio usage all at once. have instructors on course for worker class (three stations maybe). while i see this increasing the number of instructor volunteers needed, were it in sanford it might be easier to staff.

upon arrival assign a pit spot, have one instructor per 3-5 spots. herd the cats to tech, get registered whatever. then to drivers meeting , course walks, grid etc. just thinking out loud here.

while i don't consider myself qualified to instruct in car, i am sure i could help with course work. especially if at sanford.

DanDurusky · **Joined:** Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:31 pm **Posts:** 686

bwahah "herding cats".. perfect.

i agree w/ what steve is saying. half the battle at the first day is just knowing where and when to go.

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:18 pm

jimpastorius wrote:

First thing I would do would be to move the novice school to Sanford. Laurinburg is too far away and in the middle of no where. Sanford is big enough and actually would lend itself a lot better to course layout. If you can't find Sanford, then we have other issues

Problem, Sanford's rental rate is 8 to 10 TIMES as much per day as L'burg. Thats no exageration. 20 students @$40 covers your SITE cost if we get the cheap rate (ie the motorcycle folks are there). Tack on insurance, gas for the bus, and free events and a school becomes a BIG loser.

L'burg is a mighty fine site for schools.

A first autocross is a lot like losing your virginity. You know you wanna be there and kinda what you are SUPPOSED to do but you figure out the subletlys sometime down the road.

:shock:

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:50 pm

Ryan Holton wrote:

A first autocross is a lot like losing your virginity. You know you wanna be there and kinda what you are SUPPOSED to do but you figure out the subletlys sometime down the road.

:shock:

Speak for yourself :lol:

steve remchak · **Posted:** Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:51 pm

well Ryan, i can see the cost issue. not sure i agree with you on the first event cherry ritual however.

i hate to reference this part of my past, but i used to work in fast food. number one problem in fast food is attracting and more importantly RETAINING quality help. we were drilled on the importance of never leave anything unanswered or not covered. a well informed (trained) employee was a happy long term employee. throw in some puesdo promotion possibilities and people will work like hell for almost no money. (see WalMart) but i digress.

priorities for a good time as a novice are #1. limit the dnf's and i think #2 have a safe and easy to understand enviroment to play within.

this, by the way, is what you all have taught me. it may seem like overkill but i don't think too much training is a bad thing.

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

So you spent a lot of time doing bs work while not doing anything tremendously stupid to get rewarded with less than four minutes of action? Sounds about right to me, Jim.

DanDurusky · **Joined:** Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:31 pm **Posts:** 686

^just like Ryan's first time

:lol:

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:00 pm

Steve, if you are willing to coordinate all that, then I say go for it. There is no reason why you can not help setting up the novice school.

One caveat with your plan, you have added more cats to the herd. Now you have to coordinate all the instructors too. Some of us are big cats ;-)

I guess my main question is what are we trying to accomplish? I personally feel we may be trying to hand hold a little too much. These are not children we are dealing with, but grown adults. If you ever run with another club, you will see THSCC already does 10 times what other clubs do for novices.

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Novice Survey for 2005 Season - Results

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