THSCC Forums

That's the END RESULT of a system. Not the system itself. As a rally driver, I would have expected you to understand that. I bet pace notes look like gibberish to someone who has never seen them before either -- and pace notes aren't designed for memorization.

Anyways my "system" sucks bit it works for me. I was just trying to make a point that the key to any long course was knowing it well enough to not be surprised by anything while driving it, that's all.

That's why Rob could show up at 4pm and crank off a 67.x run without ever having taken a single walk of the course ... he knew it pretty well already. He could even tell you the radii of the turns

But I AM curious what simple coursewalk "languages" other people have come up with to describe things very succinctly. I use a lot of "easy" and "hard" to describe to myself how to EXIT an element -- I think this is vital to having a fast run...

So if anyone else had a "story" memorized for the course, please do post it, I want to know what kind of words you use.

_________________
Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

^speaking of which. what is the un/official rule for driving the course during setup? there's little doubt that the ppl who setup the course have quite the advantage (i know me and PJ knew the course very well at greenville although we never ran the exact course). is this just how it is? a benefit of putting in the work?

What I was told (feel free to correct/add):

1. You don't drive your car on course the 'correct' way.
2. You can drive your car backwards on the course (that was a waste of time here).
3. You can drive a car you do not autoX on the course the right way to check the course out.

Regardless, for Sanford, I took 3 runs backwards (2 mad tite d0rift0 runs) and 1 forwards, and on the one going forward, I was going slow as crap. I was looking for places that needed to be swept and elements that didnt work.

No one 'cheated' in their 'race cars', and there were a lot of elements that changed from the original course map due to 'sea of cone' issues and flow.

I thought everyone handled it very professionally in that respect.

- dow

LOOK AHEAD!!!
launch
2nd left full throttle into left/right wiggle lift full throttle
full brake pivot stay tight come out screaming
3rd full throttle double wiggle
brake hard into right left right coast down for last right & full throttle early
LOOK AHEAD!!!
short straight into tightness wiggle
full throttle left/right into open wiggle full throttle (lift if needed)
tight left into tight offsets down to 2nd be patient
LOOK AHEAD!!!
get out quick to left & smooth arc for next right
fast right to 3rd full throttle smooth opens full throttle
screaming left full throttle
straighten out & brake HARD back to 2nd for hard right
LOOK AHEAD!!!
short straight then left into tight right straighten out early for short straight
90 right full throttle early & shift to 3rd

I think that's pretty accurate, but I always remind myself to look ahead in case I foget something. It was pretty easy to do on this course.

As for setup day "cheaters" - I've done much better (as in FTPAX) when I showed up, walked the course once & looked ahead than when I helped with setup, did a couple of course testing runs and all that walking the course during setup (as in 10th raw/10th pax). I drove the car that I was racing once during setup, but we added about -1.5° of camber in the front on Sunday, so it drove a little differently. I had also tested the course earlier with the FXT. That was entertaining...

The advantage is not as big as you think. Once everybody's had a run on the course to get a feel for it, we're all on level ground again.

i drove half speed on saturday and dnf'ed @ the crossover thing. (with Rob in the car)

i could have a "manchurian canidate brainwash" of a courses design and still find a way to screw it up. hell, Mike lost me when he was explaining the way to set up grid. but it was good to see what it takes to set up and tear down an event.

Well, actually I was teasing you a bit, but as a club member I would've expected you to understand that. Any system that works for you is a good one IMO.

I don't use stories or languages, I use mental pictures and "video clips" to identify the key features and transitions, and what I want to be seeing (usually in terms of approach angles) at those points. The rest I just try to look ahead and drive.

Tim Aro says he goes more by feel- what it'll feel like for him to make the correct inputs, how the car will respond and be moving underneath him, etc. He memorizes the whole course in this way. I feel sure he uses visual cues as well, but his system is primarily haptic.

It shows how many completely different, completely valid ways there are to memorize a course.

_________________
Carl Fisher

Be Cool to the Pizza Dude:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=4651531

Well, I'm not sure he would have hit 77 mph, maybe if he had gone to third and somehow kept it matted until the hard right at the end of the runway, but I don't think thats possible. I did manage to get it into third there for my final run and I *might* have cracked 70 before lifiting a couple times in the "box of confusion" before the hard right. I finally had to go into third there because I was on the rev limiter 2nd (63 mph) for so long on my third run, I ended up lifting a few times in the straight just to save the abuse to the engine. On my second run I tried going into third for basically the whole course after the first turn around all the way to the hard right at the end of the runway, but that result was less than optimal power delivery in many spots on the course. My car is so hard to get into 3rd, I really have to want it to go there, to take the chance. I wasted alot of time making that shift, with all the grinding and whatnot. I swear if my car would shift easily into 3rd, I would have been at least a couple tenths faster and maybe wouldn't have been beaten by a girl.

Wow, so now I know why your so damn good. There is no way I could remember all that, and even if I did manage, I wouldn't be able to utilize it all whilst driving. I have a more instinctual approach and really try to look ahead. I try to walk the course enough times until I have a basic mental picture, allthough with a long course like this one I find that very difficult. My mental notes for this course were much more rudimentary. However generally, I try to have the primary sections of the course in order, with planned braking zones, and key elements that can screw me over picked out. I try to play through this in my head a few times before driving.

My thoughts exactly! The only real things I remembered to do from the walk were to stay on the throttle all the way to the first slalom around the turn, brake like hell in the box section before the cutback to the right, and to be really sensitive on the throttle before the "wall of cones" on the slick black top at the end of the straightaway.

Other than that, I was just looking for key pointer cones along the middle of the runway not remembering the general path. One thing I did remember was the five cone zig-zag that I did get behind on in my first (and fastest- barf!!) run. That was a really cool element, btw.

Personally, I do better on courses that have several traditional 5 or 6 cone slaloms because I think memorization is less critical. The Triad event on Saturday had three slaloms, one of which was preceeding a pivot cone, and was fairly simple to memorize being a 58 second course.

Either way, hitting the rev limiter at close to 9000 rpm twice in a single run translates into a fun course anyday in my book.

My approach? thanks for asking

Rev rev, spray intercooler, rev rev *use 1st for the pivot* rev rev spray *no, use second for pivot* rev rev spray *no, use 1st for pivot* rev rev spray LAUNCH! short shift to 2nd stay on gas to 2nd slalom cone, pivot from right, stay in second, shift to third 2nd cone in slalom, gas gas, light brake just past the entry section, blip right, gas gas, look ahead--see pretty butterfly--Oh! actually 2 pretty butterflies, DAMN, there's a cone in front of me--dilemma--stop and point (it's obviously out of place) or just hit it--decision decision, cut wheel hard, turn wipers on, thud. Whew, missed the butterflies.......

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Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

No, I am fairly confident he coulda hit mid 70s easy. He was already hitting the limiter before he got through the second set of double cone slaloms. Mid 70s on V710s shoulda been doable. I hit the top of 3rd's limiter.

That's just my though as he has more lateral grip from the 710s and he would be able to stay in it longer and use more of his grip to get more speed. He was on the limiter for a good 4-5 seconds.

- dow

Ps. Whitney -- When are you going to make that M3 and STU M3?

^bwahah

can't you set that fancey crap to auto-spray? turbos

Yes, some engine management systems control that based off of RPMs. When I'm idling I normally don't rev that high.

_________________
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

My car shifts from 2nd to 3rd and 3rd to 2nd perfectly fine during normal driving, but those shifts get extremely difficult for me at autocrosses. Wish I could blame the tranny, it's really just my pee-sized brain having problems processing the mechanics of those 2-3-2 shifts along with the other inputs it's getting. The 'right' gear for Sunday's course in my STi would have required the following shifts: 1-2-3-2-3-2-3-2-3-2. Not sure how the other guys in STi's dealt with it, but I tried different combinations of riding the rev limiter in 2nd (instead of the first and/or third 3rd gear shifts) and also just leaving it in 3rd (instead of the third and/or fourth 2nd gear shifts) and bogging through the slower sections. If only I had a gear that was halfway between 2nd and 3rd . . .

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Keith Q.
2008 Top Gun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmX8XuZ_DCo&NR=1

how are the stock engine/tranny mounts in the STi? soft bushing will definately make it harder to shift at high engine loads since the engine is then twisted out of its normal aligned position.

R32s have that problem stock cuz they use the same mounts as all the regular (read 115-180hp) golfs which allow this motor to flop like a fish under load. we have a lower pendulum mount which controls a majority of the engine's rocking and upgrading those bushings alone was pretty huge. she shifts perfect all the time now.