THSCC Forums

David - first let me commend you on your efforts at spelling and grammar! It's getting much better! The anal-retentive among us thank you

At some point you and Chuck and anyone else that has any opinions or issues with grid audit or any other way the events are run have to realize something -- you've got to experience every job in this organization to understand the nuances about running an event smoothly.

Go volunteer to learn T&S. Or become an officer. When you do, you quickly learn the difference between "should" and reality.

Seriously -- go work T&S for a year. You'll understand what all the officers and T&S people are talking about. People that never get to experience work "inside the bus" have no idea how logistically complex this kind of operation really is.

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

Calling you out once again. Here's what Chuck said:



Here we have a person who does not agree with the responsibilities of the job he has volunteered for. When you volunteer for a work position at an autocross, I'm assuming you will accept your responsibilites.

I'm not being hard on Chuck, I'm just recommending that he shouldn't do that job anymore. Until I have a chance to change his mind in person, it's easier to replace him with someone who WILL do what is asked and not decide that something he is told to do is not his responsibility.

Clear?

If you had a Tech Inspector at a NASA event who said, "I didn't bother checking wheel bearings on 2000 and newer cars, because the manufacturers should have built those hubs right and hubs don't fail in the first 5 years anyways", how long would that Tech inspector have his job?

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

Yes he did, but that was to Todd's comment that we needed to check the sheet because people with 2 driver cars forget to change their numbers... and Sorry to me that is outside the job of a grid worker, a Grid worker should make sure they have numbers that are legal and legible, but they should not have to double check that Bob does not have Jill numbers on his car. Of course if you’re telling me that is what you expect out of a grid worker at Tarheel event, then that’s fine it just seems a bit like hand holding someone who should not need hand holding. (Most 2+ driver cars are usually more experienced people)

Mike, I have chaired and event and even worked raw sheets several times in the past I understand how hectic it is in timing and scoring, my wife works TS and NASA events, I understand how hectic T&S is and wanting to make their job real simple.

I can see a need to check numbers in the morning with what’s in the computer, I don't see a need to do it in the afternoon, and I know it’s not much nor is it a big deal it just seems like busy work, expically if the only reason given is that because 2 driver cars forget to swith thier numbers.

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David Teague
2015 Lexus IS 250c
1994 Honda Del Sol HS 39
2009 Dodge Journey R/T
http://teaguefamily.us

It amazes me that there is this much of an issue over something that is as simple as looking for a name/number on a sheet of paper. This is in place to help T&S run smoothly which in turn directly effects how smooth the event goes.

David, numbers can fall off and co-driver cars will forget to change their numbers at some point. I forget almost every other event.

Obviously, it is the competitor's job to make sure their car is classed properly. However, you also need to remember that we are trying to run a quality event.

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In need of car.

Just becuase I we a discussing somehitng in a adult manner it is an issue? I am not saying its an Issue I am just interested in the though process behind this, but oh weill I thought this is how we got better at doing stuff.... If you feel I am making a big "issue" of this then I'll just keep my mouth shut then.

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David Teague
2015 Lexus IS 250c
1994 Honda Del Sol HS 39
2009 Dodge Journey R/T
http://teaguefamily.us

Give it a rest please!!

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George Bright Member # 141
One of the youngest of the old farts.
Yes I voted against you joining the club.

Apploogies to George

Thinking about it more I have sort of changed my mind. While I do like the grid audit and DEFFINATELY understand the benifits, I do realize that it is the drivers responsibility to make sure they have the right number on the car. We did almost tell Duke to suck it when Jeff McCormick had the wrong number on the car and his fast run was credited to Kristin Hill. This would have been the first time a female had FTD in THSCC's history.

If we only do the grid audit during heats 1 & 2, we need to make it well clear to the drivers during the driver's meeting, that if they do not have the correct time on there car, those runs will be DNF'd. No exceptions. We could also say that once the final audit is done and the trophies are presented, that is it. No more changes. Unless the mistake is the result of a T&S error. It doesn't happen often, but we do make mistakes.

Just a few more pennies of my thoughts.

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Todd Breakey
STS 42 - 1992 Sunburst Miata
Dammit!
"You souldn't play leap frog with a porcupine. You might get hurt." - Eliza

Example...

Let's say Sally and I forget to swtich numbers and I take my runs with her number. If I happen to get FTPAX with her numbers on the car, does the club tell everyone to "Suck it" at the end of the day?

This isn't the SCCA, we're committed to our results being correct. Maybe I come forward after the event to solve the problem, but it's too late by then. My competitors didn't notice and didn't protest me, and I didn't notice until too late. By the rules, once all runs are done it's too late to protest, so the results stand, right?

I'm seeing a bunch of good PAX finishes for us i the future!

Scott

I've worked start and had the bus people ask me who is in the car. In hindsight, that wasn't fair to me because the grid worker should have already figured that out for me, and slowed the event down when I ran over to the bus and grabbed painters tape to fix the problem. I should have been teh ahole and made them go back, but didn't. It really is in the gridworkers hands to get it started smoothly.

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

One more point that many folks probably don’t know… While working in the bus can be really hectic, sometimes sending folks to the edge of their sanity (& civility!), the bus is not always even where the aggravation ends. Let’s take this past event…

1. Event is over, audited, & scores are posted to the web.
2. Sponsor of the Duke group emails to say that the last 2 times posted for #62 belong to #64.
3. What has to happen now:
A. Decide if we want to let the scores stand as posted with a person who really had one of the slowest raw times of the day stay forever in the scores of this event as the first woman ever (as far as we know) to be FTD. If we decide to make a change, we first need to check the Raw Sheets to verify what we have there--don't get excited; we don't just change folks' scores willy-nilly . So, who is involved in the decision:
a. Head of Scoring
b. Autocross VPs
c. President
d. Tonya (who has the laptop & will have to make the change & reissue the results)
e. me (who massages & puts the results files up on the web)
B. We make the decision to change the results (because we are NC's Premier Amateur Motorsports Org & we don't like to do things half-a**, if you hadn't noticed ).
a. Todd reviews all the Raw Sheets to gather all the times for the Duke car & inform the group of his findings.
b. Tonya won’t have time to make the correction until Wednesday, so I spend 30-45 minutes manually correcting the web results. But, Tonya must still make the correction in order to produce the corrected results file for the H&T.
c. Steve can’t get the H&T file to put the H&T together until all the corrections are done.

So, all-in-all, we spent 3 days, involved 7 folks, & spent a combined 1-2 hours of various people's "free" time resolving & correcting just this problem.

I know it's the Dookies , but, still, now let’s consider what probably would have happened if someone had taken 3 seconds to ask this guy when he was in the car for his afternoon runs, “Are you AM62?”...

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The person with too many names...
Mary E./ME/Emmie Fisher/Daniel/Daniel-Fisher
(& some others not suitable for posting!).
Help support our habits; BUY http://virginiabreeze.us !

There are two ways to look at incorrectly numbering your car IMO.

1. T&S can jump through hoops and get it right for the driver(s).
2. Get it right YOURSELF if you want the CORRECT time on your run.

IMO, if you don't like #2, then tough sh*t, deal with the consequences.

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Vincent Keene
'06 Ford Mustang GT (track rat)
'15 Dodge Charger R/T (yeah, it's got a HEMI!)
'07 Ford Fusion SE (205,000 miles and counting)
'98 Chevy Z-24 (retired)
'93 Acura Integra (Team SWB 24HOL Car)

We should folow the SCCA rules....it is the driver's responsibility to have the correct class and number. If they are incorrect, your time is a DSQ.

That is unless you are friends with T&S I made a run at a national event without the "1" on the car. Luckly Mary Clements was nice enough to spot it and keep T&S from DSQ'ing me. Needless to say, I never wnet off without the correct numbers on the car.

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

I dunno, probably 2/3 of the class and number problems are on Novice cars. I thought we were a NOV friendly organization? Shouldn't we at least try to help them first before DSQing 'em?

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

I am not advocating giving anyone a DSQ, especially a novice. Hell, they got enough to worry about. I don't have a problem with the grid checking numbers. Hindsight being 20/20, at the last 2 sanford events, we could have used 2 people in grid. One controlling the flow and one checking numbers and answering questions. Yea, I worked grid at Sanford #1 And yes, I checked every number and matched the driver to the number.

As Jim F said, it was cool because I got to put a lot faces to cars. But I had to be careful and not chat too long...the start was 1/4 mile away and cars were coming and going the whole heat.

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

Mike, I take exception to you calling me out about my post, especially since you took my comment out of context to imply I wasn't going to do the proper job I was assigned to. I ALWAYS go out of my way to do the very best job possible, and I always will! "Friendly" club my ASS! this is THE most UNFRIENDLY club I have ever come in contact with. If anyone is not a member of the Pompous, self centered, god's gift to AX clique you aint sh**. In case you haven't noticed you are no longer president or the chief rule maker.

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SPIN or WIN!
there's no glory for going slow.