THSCC Forums

Since the original thread has turned into a train wreck/ argument between the novices and 1 or 2 experienced guys...

Can we get some comments from 2004/2005 novices here discussing what you either like or don't like and/or think we should change about the new novice class rules (you have read all of them, right? ), and about how we "old timers" can help you feel more at home and help you learn? Also, please include things like what your goals are for autox, and whether you think you'll stick around a while (and why?).

Experienced guys please keep the F out.

EDIT: Experienced comments WILL be deleted by admins

I will chime in:

I will take any help I can get, but I am not good about asking people I don't know for help. I did take the novice school at the beginning of the season and the Chick's school last month. I feel like I learned a lot from both!!!
I think that the help I have gotten is really great (both at the schools and the two events I have run in), but I think that a couple of people have encouraged me to push the car beyond where I am comfortable; resulting in a poor run. That being said, I think that is definitely something that I need to work on.
I would like to work on pretty much every aspect of autocrossing. I am not smooth. I try to look ahead, but I don't always do as well as I should. I know I use a lot more of the pavement than is necessary to accomplish simple manuvers..........
Will I stick around? YES Why? Because I really do enjoy it! Even if I am not beating Todd,(like he said I would) I still have a blast!
And that is my two cents!

I'll be around for a minimum of 2 more events by choice. My reasoning? To see if I really enjoy it as much as I think I do. The novice school at the beginning of the season followed by the first event of the season was a blast. BUT, since I had horrible tires to be tearing up on the pavement, I had some less than desirable times for what I could be doing. So, I have a genorous offer to co-drive another car at Greenville which I've jumped on, and will be driving mine at Sanford in September with some better tires. Sanford will be my main deciding point as if I have a blast and can find more enjoyment in pushing my car on the road as much as I do off the road then I will be back next year for the full season of AutoX.

This is like deja vu all over again .

Well I believe that this year’s format has been very entertaining and has also shown me a few things I didn’t realize before.
A) Power is nice but you’ve got to be able to control it
B) I’m not yet up to controlling it
C) Competitive mode on the corvette does help keep you from spinning out
D) The mini is a better car to learn in
E) When you’re teetering on the bring of loss of control its hard to look ahead
F) After you walk a course if you can follow the line you decided to drive you’ll do better
G) Walk the course with someone experienced to get your line
H) Ride with experienced drivers, or if possible have them drive your car.
I) If a school is held go to it
J) The largest improvement you can make is the driver (seat time, seat time, seat time)

Actually I’ve learned so much I can’t list it all.
The novice school was a fantastic way to start this season, if possible more schools would help both novice and intermediate drivers.
The first actual event I attended was confusing, the second was less confusing and by the third time you become comfortable with the morning, ie. Registration, work assignments, pit area, walking the course, tech. inspection of the cars, and understanding the grid set up and how it relates to the work assignments. It would have been easier if there were someone or a designated group of folks to walk the totally raw novice thru this. Whether shirts or hats designate them or whatever identifier, is irrelevant. It would have been easier. I walked someone from the Triad club thru this at Danville it didn’t take five minutes. When I asked these things at my first event everyone was helpful go see Steven Westerfield for work assignments, or go see Vincent he can answer that, see Scott about that, Unfortunately I didn’t know these folks at that time. I got by and so did everyone else. But to make it easier, guides of some sort would have helped. Chris Overcash took Gwen and me under his wing and led us around.
The mentor program is great and the novice program in general was fine other than the above. The above is only my recommendation, the program obviously works with out the recommendations, we’ve gotten this far without them.
My goal for this year is prep for next year in the classes, learn as much as I can, and be as competitive as I can be. Drive faster, spinout less, kill fewer cones and try to stay ahead of Gwen and Steve.
I’m enrolled at Rockingham, and intend to attend some of the rally cross events also. I will continue to pursue driving events as long as I’m able.
Bernie

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2004 C5(415whp,390ft/lbs),
1997C5,1997Trans Am, 1986 C4,
1990 Miata, 1976 MGB,1997 Protege, 1989 MR2

I have enjoyed the year long Novice class. It has also helped me feel not so alone in being a newbie. I have also gained a great appreciation for the people that I started out with and I get immense joy out of watching their times improve. I was very tentative about the starting the whole Autocross thing and being able to stay in the novice class all year has helped me feel more relaxed about the experience.

I will be returning next year but, I am very intimidated about going in to the STS class or the LAD class. I know that I am out ranked and out driven by everyone in both classes. But, saying that I will go into a new class next year and have fun. I have enjoyed becoming a member of THSCC and the officers and mentors have been very generous with their time and help. Thank you!!

My dream is to win STS and make my husband cry like a baby. It might take me 10 years to do it but, I will strive to obtain this lofty goal

I was a NOOB in 2004. I had no problem with the way the Novice program worked last year. My goals are to be competitive but not to the point where I get upset if I have a bad day or a bad run, so fun has to remain high. Maybe even higher than competitiveness. I'm 1/(mechanically inclined) so I need to be able to drive up, add air to my tires and do some runs. Brian H offered to change tires for me if I went R-comps for a few dollars at each event but I suspect he was kidding. Any takers for this?

I went to OPEN after my first event. Miles and Dan saw that I put the AS stickers on my car and immediately came over and offered help, walk-alongs, ride-alongs, etc. Very welcoming and very hospitable and it broke the ice for me as I am not outgoing by nature when I first meet people. Plus, I thought that it was pretty cool that class 'competitors' were helping me out. I say 'competitors' because I wasn't much competition initially but it was cool to hear them talking approaches and strategy.

I have three areas to comment on.

Pairing up front
-Prior to joining THSCC I had chatted with Marcus a few times. The first time I showed up at an event he helped me out with the basics (set-up and work/run grouping). It could be a logistical nightmare but if we had a way to assign a noob to a experienced person PRIOR to the event they can hook up first thing in the morning for assistance with the basics. The way we do things now is fine but there are a lot of basic questions that probably go un-asked due to the amount of noobs that we have in the noob meetings. By the way, this is already happening at an informal level. Some of the noobs showing up already know people.

Mentoring throughout the year
-Going back to my statement above about Miles and Dan: If we ever go back to the way we ran last year, knowing who is transitioning into your class from Nov would be helpful. I have no problem sharing what I have learned but realize that some people show up with their race face/game on. (Hell, I've even parked next to people in the set-up parking area that wouldn't make eye contact to even say hello!). Point being that transitioning noobs have access to, and support from, class participants. this should be easy as the mentoring aspect declines throughout the year but the camaraderie aspect continues and grows. That's what makes people come back.

Points
-Two points columns for the Noobs. One for the open class they would be running in if in open, and one for all Novices. Hell, if one trophies in the open class give them the open trophy!

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Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

i have written so much about this subject on the other thread i am wore out.

i believe for me the full season nov class gave me a place to start with and a definite place to go. 6 or 8 events compared to others also green to the sport. branded as a nov, many people tried to make my experience fulfilling. i was exceedingly apprehensive before the season started and actually impatient. this lead to frustration on my part. i posted to the forum and got some answers and also some responses which left me with more questions.

car classing alone should be a good reason to have a year long nov class. i feel it takes at least 4 or 5 events to actually figure where to class a car. and honestly i still don't know where i am going to run next season. yes i will return for any number of reasons. i am proud to be a member of THSCC and salute the work load carried by those that make this club run. it truly amazes me the BS the officers are forced to endure some times. while i feel most of the criticisms are meant constructively, they seem to always turn in some way.

my goal, i think, is to build a track car. however, i plan to continue to autoX for the seat time. many of the opinions i have heard say the two do not coexist. i think it is all what you make it and nothing more.

motorsports competition i feel lends itself to strong willed, confident, driven individuals. however as a novice, i think noobs should consider checking their egos at the door at least to some extent. year long novice isn't for everyone but i think it is good for those that choose to progress within a structured system. the dude from Triad apparently dropped some jack and expected to light up the noobs. ego is a terrible thing if not kept under control. my results are soley the responsibility of my own actions, not my competitors. my car is easily a top 5 performer, but my growth as a driver has not reached that point yet. this i accept as being the main reason i am a season long novice. while i may have the basics down i still have much to learn. and afterall isn't that the description of a novice?

Kevin, thanks for taking the initiative to start this thread and to seek our feedback.

So here is mine......

Good things
1 - Novice program: I support the current format (but I wasn't around to experience any other format). While some of the more experienced drives say it means nothing to win a season points event as a novice (I assume that's mainly because it's based on PAX), as a new person to this sport (that doesn't know any better), it's fun as hell right now and I'm really enjoying the competition with several of the other novice drivers.

2 - Novice meetings/course walks: Rob and Graham are doing an outstanding job with this. I have found the information and experience they share with the novices to be very beneficial.

3 - Novice school: Great format. Lots of seat time. Good instructors. I recommend video taping your runs and all the feedback that your instructor gives you. I still go back and listen to the feedback that Whitney gave me throughout the day at the Novice school. Each time I do this, I pick up on something he said and a light comes on in my head and I say "Oh....now I understand what he was saying." It's a great format.


Things to consider changing/adding:
1 - Name tags: It would be great if when we arrive at an event and sign the release form, we all had to write our name/class/# (and role if you are a club officer) on an adhesive name tag and wear it (just like the wrist band) at the event. I'm horrible at remembering people's names. I can remember a face forever, but it seems to take forever for me to remember names. I believe this would help to promote more discussion from the novices and the seasoned veterans.

2 - For the Novices that pre-register for an event, send them an email with links to the key information on the THSCC website they need to know. Let them know that the club would like make their experience at the event a positive one. To help do this, the club would like to provide them with a mentor for the event. If they accept, a mentor can be assigned and begin working with the Novice. The same would occur with the novices that register at the event. Unfortunately, they would not benefit from any discussions with the mentor prior to the event like those who pre-registered would.

3 - Novice schools or autox schools in general: Have more of them during the season. They are great!!

4 - I believe we may be doing this, but I'll include it for completeness. When assigning novice’s work assignments, be sure they are put at a station with someone with a couple of seasons of experience that truly understands everything about working the course (what to say on the radio, when to throw the read flag, when it's a DNF, when it's a penalty and when it's not, etc). At the first event at Laurinburg this year, a car ran over a cone and the cone was up under the car as he approached our section, neither one of us knew what to do (stop the car vs do nothing).


My Goals

Short Term
- Working on the development of autox skills:
* looking ahead
* car control
* learning the difference between 9/10, 10/10, and 11/10!
* learning how to walk a course and view it as if I'm at speed in my car
* getting as many rides with the experienced drivers as possible!
* learning more about car setup and how changes impact how the car performs

Long Term
- Move to BSP next season and expand the # events (including NCAC).
- Compete in at least 4 rallyx events in 2006
- Complete 2 HPDEs in 2005 and 4 in 2006. Begin competing in time trials starting in 2007.
- Get my SCCA club racing license in 2009 and focus on Road Course racing.

Do I plan to stick around?
Hell yeah! Besides, who else knows how to setup the PA!!! I plan to continue autoxing as long as I'm having fun (that doesn't mean that I have to be winning, but I hope to be!)

I'm sure one or two other things will come to mind. I'll update this info if and when that occurs.

Thanks again Kevin!

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Rob Harvey
919-697-5485
1997 BMW M3
1992 Acura Integra (Simon)

I've enjoyed the heck out of year-long novice class. Bernie's already said just about everything I'd have to say. Having Dustin drive my car for a fun run at my first event (a rallycross, admittedly) was incredibly useful, since I used his advice to make some changes to my rear alignment that made my car handle worlds better.

Short term goals:
* Figure out how to deal with pivot cones.
* Use my brakes less.

Do I plan to stick around?
No, but that's because I'm moving to Seattle, not because I didn't enjoy the sport(s). I'll be enthusiastically participating in autocross and rallycross out there.

_________________
1988 Plymouth Reliant

AMEN!! Please let me know the secret when you find it!

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Rob Harvey
919-697-5485
1997 BMW M3
1992 Acura Integra (Simon)

alrightty then, the season has ended, first year with a season long novice program and what have we learned? IMO, THSCC has several new core members, some new very good drivers, and a successful test of a new system. i wish i personally fit all these categories but hey WTF.

i would like to know where the "gangsta Novices" of 05 plan to compete next season. as i will be in TIR i would appreciate ya'll going some where else.

but in all seriousness, what can we do to continue the program? and how are we going to acheive this goal? i believe there is core support in the club for a dedicated novice program. i am no politician, more a rabble rouser, so i ask who will step up to take this issue to the forefront? i mean, damn, did you all see some of those novices @ L'burg this weekend? they need our help. they flat out sucked. but i believe i saw some talent trying to shine thru somehow, somewhere. don't forget where you came from novice class of 2005. steve

PJ and I hope to compete in STX if we can find some scubarus to beat up on but if not well probably run in TIR class too. itd be boring just racing each other.

as for the season long NOV program. i officialy rescend my previous statement.. i think i'm against it now. it just got worse and worse as the season went on for the true novices. if the people in the class dont reflect the name of the class.. then i guess its not right.

since there are 8 events and 6 count, why not inform the novices that they have 2 freebie shots in NOV and if they want to compete for points they need to jump out after that.. thats as fair warning as can be i guess. sure, theyll probably get beat their first few events in open class, but thats to be expected..

or maybe another solution is the 'intermediate season points class' but that sounds liek a lot of added complication.

novices are the people who almost get rear ended by the next car.. not PJ and Rob

I would have to agree with Dan on the season long standings. It's great on one hand as you can compete with other novices all year before you jump into the fire with more veteren drivers. But with the novice class constantly building up steam and bringing in new faces, it hurts those novices that come in midway through the season as they do have to compete with the likes of Bernie, Dan, Pj, and Rob. Who knows, maybe if this holds on for a while longer, it may end up being the most logical choice. It's just pretty difficult to tell from just one season though.

while working on sunday I noticed there were some first timers lined up ahead of an STi. They almost caught up to them!
-I do agree that a first or second timer needs special consideration, n00b, Novice, whatever you want to call them.
-I had A LOT of fun competing in Novice this year. It was a great way to meet and hang out with people in the same situation as you. Maybe there could be a Rookie class and a Novice class. One for season long and one for first timers.
-I can see both sides of the arguement, but I think Rob, Dan, Gwen Bernie, Steve, Cosby, Lucas and I wouldnt have gotten to know each other had it not been for this class!

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traded the ultimate driving machine for a hatchback.....

i've been against season-long novice all along for this reason. it almost defeats the purpose of having a novice class all together.

but it may just be that i'm against it b/c i never got to run in "novice" (i was in STS) and i'm jealous.