THSCC Forums

In 1999 there was a generic school in October before the October Laurinburg event. That was the debut event for our Celica. It did 2 novice drivers during the school and ran as a 2 driver car on Sunday.

I didn't drive it.

For the stats:
One driver still autocrosses (Sally)
One driver has only run one other event (Sally's brother Nathan).

Scott

it would seem to me a second novice school would probably have a better turnout relatively soon after the first one. maybe 60 days later. my thinking is all the novices that didn't know about or were unable to attend the march school might then sign-up. however i would certainly think registration numbers would need to justify having a second school. maybe 90 days out for the second school.

WOW! This group has as many opinions on this topic as the club has cones. This is my first year as a THSCC member having moved to Raleigh from Boston last October. Last year was my first year of Auto-crossing and I did 3 events at my old club in Boston. When I joined THSCC I decided to run in the open class for a few reasons: After 3 events (and the THSCC novice school in March) I didn’t think it appropriate to run as a novice. I don’t like the PAX system used for the novice and tire class. So I am having fun getting killed in AS running on street tires. I would love to run race tires but haven’t figured out how to get them to the event (no hitches available for the M Roadster).

Obviously there are no right answers for the novice questions. At the club in Boston we had a great Novice program, required novice drivers to use assigned mentors or coaches. We did not have a separate novice class, we ran with our class. Novices were noted in the results for all classes which did a little to ease the egos (except the experienced drivers that were getting beat by novices). We did not award event trophies, only season trophies, and while novices usually were not competitive for the class trophies the club awarded special trophies based upon improvement over the season and input from the mentors (coaches) at seasons end. After four events the novice designation was removed. We also did not have a tire class, and in fact did not use PAX for any scoring. Classes were not based upon SCCA guidelines but rather on a points system based upon car and modifications (I am not suggesting this but only share this information to describe how the novice program worked at another club).

I do this because if it is FUN FUN FUN!!!! I want to drive fast, miss as many cones as possible, and do it faster the next time. I really don’t care about the awards, I do like to run in AS rather than Tire or Novice because if gives me a better idea where I stack up when compared to the good drivers using raw times and avoiding the whole PAX controversy. Someday I will figure out how to get race tires to the events and that will provide an even better benchmark as to my performance vs. the rest of the class, for now if gives me an excuse for getting killed. In the mean time it is still fun and I am always looking for help and advice….so if any of you fast guys want a ride let me know.

Rob took a few shots at Jim about his 3 runs in my M Roadster at the Novice school, they were kind of fun. I think you get much better feedback and advice from an experienced driver if the driver is familiar with your car. For example Jim thought I was braking late until he drove the car. I would recommend that the club allow mentors to give novices a run using the novice’s car (only at the novices request of course). I learned more riding in my car with an experienced driver than I did doing anything else. I know this might add a few runs to the day but in can be limited and at the mentors discretion.

We should all be in the sport for the fun, enjoyment, and excitement of the event. Consequently if shouldn’t matter how you run the novice class, although it may be discouraging if a first time Novice thinks he has to compete with the guys at the top of this class. Not all drivers progress at the same pace, and you shouldn’t have to wait to win an event to move into open. Perhaps if you finish in the top third for three events it is time to move on. If the trophy is important, give every novice who graduates to open class a trophy. If you complete a season or a certain number of events it is time to move into open class…

I didn’t mean to be so windy. This is a great club, the courses have been fun and fair, everyone is friendly and helpful, the events are well run (although shorter meetings and more seat time would be good), and I look forward to working my way into the “reward” events (tell me how).

Tom Osetek
Silver M Roadster

Tom,

Welcome to AS. I'm happy to see a roadster out there. I'm running OEM street tires as well. It's just more incentive to try to drive smarter to keep up with the other guys.

Chris
Silver STi on skinny 225's

/end hijack/

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Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

I fully agree. I was struggling in the morning session at the Novice school. Mike Whitney was my instructor. I finally said "Mike, I'm just not getting it. Take the wheel and show me how to get through the course faster. That's how I learn." Mike ran the course 3 secs faster than me and he was probably on going at about 80% (it was only a mid-20 second course). Mike said "now go get it!" My next run was 1.5 seconds faster than any of my previous runs. That 23 seconds riding with Mike showed me everything that he had been telling me all morning. I repeated the same process in the afternoon with similar results. Some of us have to see it and feel it before the lights come on and we better understand what the instructors have been telling us to do.

BTW Tom, that car of yours is one very S-W-E-E-T ride!

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Rob Harvey
919-697-5485
1997 BMW M3
1992 Acura Integra (Simon)

Tom,

When you are ready to buy r-comp's, I will carry them for you and help you put them on. Any one that insists on me driving their car and tells me "don't hold back" has my respect and gratitude.

We laid the smack down on the BS M3 that day that is all that mattered

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

while i feel i am on the losing side of this filibuster, here goes. i too attended the novice school. Richard Casto rode with me on the short course. my runs got faster. i truly do not remember the long course. i think i only got two runs. but i could be mistaken.

Rob Lupella has been persistent at offering ride alongs as well as riding with me. Mike Whitney also jumped in the car @ greenville. Kevin Butler taught me to break at precise moments in a slalom. Jason rode with me on one of my first runs @ the spring L'burg event.

that is my resume'. this is my point. i needed that help and i still need help. a full season as a novice (whether classed as such or not) is what i feel i require to become a better autoX'er.

if i have forgotten anyone please accept my hearty thanks and apologies.

here is another one of my opinions on this subject. you are only green once; why not let those, that want to enjoy it, do so?

i just don't see the problem here. i was intimidated at my first event by the sheer newness of the whole autoX scene. the competition was secondary. i finished next to last overall in my first event. that was one spot higher than i expected to finish. i don't set low goals i set realistic goals and then i am thrilled shitless when i do better than i expected.

novice class is meant for novice behavoir. and if that means running away with the season points, then fine run with them. thing is it is shaping up to be a good battle for first. but according to Graham there are 7 diehard novices this season. the bitch of it is, i am probably going to finish seventh. where i expected to be ? yes. where i want to be? not particulary. i am behaving like the novice i expected to be, and i learn something new every event. i vote for two seasons as a novice.

as are the rules of the club: any participant can run in any class as long as their car fits the rules. (paraphrasing as best as i remember)

EXCEPT!!!!!! should you be unfortunate enough to choose novice class. then you must be open to insult, ridicule or just plain disdain.


i mean from the likes of TRIAD, ya'll. reach behind you and pull'em out


whatever happens next season, i am pleased to say many people have tried to make my first season both enjoyable and productive. thanks again. steve.

Then you'll have a lot in common with this guy: I was SEVENTH!!!11!

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

C'mon, everyone, only 14 pages? I'm sure we can get to at least 20...

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

that is funny. but don't expect me to shave my head any time soon.

Ah... this is a VERY good point.

I was talking to a fellow friend about this VERY same thing since he is coming back to autoX.

The FEELING I get from autoX with THSCC and its members to new people is very.... well, xenophobic. If it wasn't for the fact that we had a VERY positive experience with the Subaru Challenge Series before coming to THSCC, I am very sure in saying we would not be with THSCC.

The point of that being that just finding your 'rhythm' and feeling like you are at a place with other people who WANT to help you is a BIG part of being a NOVICE. You need to have individuals that are OUTGOING and trying to help YOU feel at ease so you can just ENJOY what is going on first.. and then a few events down the line, start thinking about the driving.

That was a very good post as I had almost forgotten about that and talking with friends and this post reminded me of that.

Hopefully, I can help with that now that I am apart of the Novice Mentors Program.

We will see and good post!

- dow

xenophobe: A person unduly fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign, especially of strangers or foreign peoples.

xenophobic: suffering from xenophobia; having abnormal fear or hatred of the strange or foreign.

Let me understand what you are saying...that THSCC members have an abnormal fear or hatred towards novices. Maybe I misunderstood your post.

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

Xenophobic? Really? The impression I got was quite the opposite. Maybe it was because I drove a cool car...

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

Did you get that feeling AT the events !?!?!?

Online, I can understand it, since we all saw those threads But if people were dissing you in person I'd be REALLY surprised. The people in THSCC are the most friendly, nice, helpful people -- in person -- that I know!

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

No no... this was way before the internet.

I just never got the feeling that people were at all 'friendly'. If it wasn't for the fact that I started bringing my own friends and whatnot, I would prb. have given up. Yes, that feeling was AT the event (Oct 2003) shared by my wife and I.

That being said, I am not the most outgoing person with people I don't know as well.

All that being said, once you have been 'inducted' into THSCC (whether it be trail by forums or just getting to know the individual) things are cool. If you are more social or extroverted like PJ... things work better. The only reason I suggested LONG ago on the forums a 'novice crew' was because I am not a PJ. It just helps to have people that you know you can turn to, which is what THSCC seems to be doing now.

Regardless, it is nice if people will just randomly say 'Hey, I am lost, what is going on and tell me.' or ask for help. For me, I just researched the living crap out of it on the internet before I even thought about coming. That, and I came to the THSCC meetings before I ever went to an event. Without the kindness of 1 or 2 people, my first autoX with THSCC would have been a disaster.


Oh, that and I didn't have a 'NOV' designation at my first autoX, so I guess I was thought to be from 'some other club' or something... maybe.... I don't know.

Once people in the club know you, and start talking to you, yes, MOST THSCCers are very good people. In fact, I don't have a DIRECT problem with anyone in THSCC.

I just thought I would share MY experience as what Steve said sorta hit a familiar feeling string with me.

- brian