Sanford Site Improvements- Need Input

MilesBeam · **Joined:** Fri Aug 15, 2003 1:57 pm **Posts:** 427

The Sanford site managers have asked for input from our club regarding changes they are considering making to the runways/taxiways (what they call "The Track").

To improve it's features for law enforcement training, they are considering adding the following:
1) an S curve (I have no idea where they would do that)
2) a constant radius curve
3) a run off practice area (*see explanation below)
4) a real interesection complete with stoplights.

*the run off area is an area where they will allow officers to practice a two wheels off situation on a highway, and then have to make proper controlled inputs to get back on the highway without losing control. This will probably consists of an extended concrete strip along the edge of the main runway which has the cross section of something like an inverted curb.

Now... I am seeking serious input with regards to what your suggestions would be as to how to improve the usability of the Sanford site for our purposes.

Their funding is limited so please don't bother with silly suggestions like "pave the whole thing."

If I get valuable input, I will try to keep you updated here on the forum as any progress is made.

Let me know what you guys think. I know we have some very, very talented and creative people here, so I'm looking forward to hearing some good ideas.

They are looking for help from us, and though they can't promise us anything, we should be glad they asked. They would love to see some drawings of our proposal. It is in our best interest to provide input and work with them so the track doesn't get transformed into something we can't use! If one of you wants to volunteer some time to work with me and take the suggestions we get to create some drawings to submit that would be great.

One detail I do have is that they planning on putting a building right off the end of the main runway that is closest to the terminal building. I hate that because I had some great ideas for how to use that nice taxiway connector at the end. So, let's hear from all you wanna be race track designers!

I reserve the right to delete posts that don't contribute to the cause here.

Thanks for your input!

Miles Beam
Site Coordinator

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Wed May 25, 2005 10:45 am

Here are some ideas off the top of my head:

-Widen the narrow taxiway. This is of benifit to both THSCC and the police folks for increased training area.

-Widen one or more of the taxiway connectors, especially the one at the far end.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Wed May 25, 2005 10:57 am

MilesBeam wrote:

an S curve

Miles I forgot to mention to you that Joey showed up on Sunday and asked for you. When he told me who he was (his job) my first thought was "Oh no, what have we done wrong?" I explained that you weren't available to attend Sunday and introduced myself and the other two VPs.

Actually he was just riding around Sunday and remembered we were supposed to be there and decided to come a watch for a while. He was very nice and we talked shop for about 30 mins. He did seem surprised at how fast some of our little four bangers could go since he's a 1/8 drag racer type.

He mentioned the "S curve" you were talking about but didn't have any details. He also said a shooting range was soon to be added (no time frame though) at the far end of the runway.

Since we know that widening the entire taxiway is most likely not in their budget, I'm with Ryan in let's widen the crossovers.

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

could somebody post a satellite image of the whole place?

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Wed May 25, 2005 11:04 am

Kevin Allen wrote:

could somebody post a satellite image of the whole place?

http://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?t ... 4&z=17&w=2

David Spratte · **Posted:** Wed May 25, 2005 11:09 am

Kevin Allen wrote:

could somebody post a satellite image of the whole place?

Run Off Practice Area=Rally-X Site?

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

There is room on the runway side to widen it another 15 yards towards the train tracks, that would be cool. I would also like to see the middle cut through (not the one closest to the motorcycle pad) widened, and it looks like a minimum of fill would be required to do that. Additionally, I'd vote for widening the taxiway.

Carl Fisher · **Posted:** Wed May 25, 2005 11:30 am

Well, obviously a great thing would be to widen the taxiway for its whole length. Somewhat less ambitious (and maybe more realistic) would be to widen it only between 2 adjacent crossovers. But I don't think either of those would be strictly necessary to make the taxiway usable to us again. If they could remove or minimize the ditch that's there, and clear the rest of those pine saplings, we'd have a safe enough runoff. On Saturday I was looking at the "landscaping" they did along the edge of the taxiway, and thinking that they might've already created enough of a gravel trap to catch 98% of cars going off there.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Wed May 25, 2005 11:30 am

BTW, for those of you that noticed the new grading on the taxiway side...it's not for widening.

They just put a sewer line through there.

Chuck Frank · **Posted:** Wed May 25, 2005 1:30 pm

Donna and I were talking about that on Sunday saying how if they would only pave between the runway and taxiway between the two crossovers we used what a great site it would create. Since that is probably outside the available funds my suggestion would be to widen the crossover where the bus was parked to ~ 200-250' wide to allow some sweepers and/or a traction circle for test and tunes and schools. It could double as a skid pad for wet/low traction driver training for the police (I think any proposal we make should include how it would benefit THEIR use). My lowest budget proposal would be to make their S curve by widening the main runway towards the railroad tracks or the taxiway towards the center in a "bell curve shaped area".
I hope they put the "off pavement" training area away from where we AX so it doesn't add much more to the already abundant gravel on the pavement.
I'd also suggest they invest in a powered sweeper to remove gravel and the broken glass and debris from the vehicle fire training exercises, for the safety of the police car tires of course! :twisted:

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

I believe that any sweeper would produce more crap than it would remove.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Wed May 25, 2005 2:26 pm

Chuck Frank wrote:

I'd also suggest they invest in a powered sweeper to remove gravel

We tried that a while back. Believe it or not it made it worse.

The onlt thing that seems to help Sanford's grip is heavy rain the day before.

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

Vincent Keene wrote:

Chuck Frank wrote:

I'd also suggest they invest in a powered sweeper to remove gravel

We tried that a while back. Believe it or not it made it worse.

The onlt thing that seems to help Sanford's grip is heavy rain the day before.

Since sweeping it makes it worse and the traction can be rather dismal at times. How about asking them if they could put some type of sealer on the runway. If they want to use that site long term for the police, our club, and other clubs to run driving events then they need to protect that surface. All that marbled gravel coming loose will soon lead to a site like Laurinburg where major patching will be required. Right now they could avoid that if they can afford it. I say treat the existing surface before adding more.

Being able to use the whole main runway for a course and having it hold up would be prrtty nice.

Graham

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Wed May 25, 2005 4:02 pm

Graham Jagger wrote:

How about asking them if they could put some type of sealer on the runway.

As this is Ryan's line of work he should chime in.

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

So you want sealed asphalt just like we have at Greenville and at Rockingham?

Not just no, but heck no.

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