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Would you rather have FREE events, or more club gadgets
Events 46%  46%  [ 13 ]
Gadgets 54%  54%  [ 15 ]
Total votes : 28
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 Post subject: Simplicity - take 2
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:11 pm 
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Simply put, would you rather the club spend "extra" money on things like a wireless lable printer, or would you rather the club spend the money hosting "free" events for members only.

Again, these topics aren't meant as a slam towards anyone, just differing points of view on the meaning of "Grassroots" motorsports.

Free events that I'm envisioning in the next year or two:

Autocrosses
"Family" day at a go-kart place (ie: Adventure Landing).
"Family" day at the slot-car place in Cary.


Scott


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:13 pm 
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For someone without a family, I'd have to pick "gadgets".

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:28 pm 
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Wes Eargle wrote:
For someone without a family, I'd have to pick "gadgets".



What he said :) If it were free AXs that would be a different story


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:35 pm 
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RobLupella wrote:
Wes Eargle wrote:
For someone without a family, I'd have to pick "gadgets".



What he said :) If it were free AXs that would be a different story


Did yall notice the #1 item on my list of freebies?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:29 pm 
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Gadgets, and I will paypal a donation :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:34 pm 
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I wonder if we simplified it down, if we could run more events. Why can a local club run 12-16 events and we run 8? Do the gadgets and technologies give us more runs or more events?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:35 pm 
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Gadgets. I'd donate $$ too.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:34 pm 
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When I think about the "gadgets" we have so far, I'm in support of most everything we have acquired to this point that I can think of. The wireless timer was a great addition. The JAC timer years ago was essential to improving the quality and reliability of our events. The spare timer box was also an important acquisition as it allowed us to have a backup of our main and essential piece of timing gear. The new display that replaced the old LED one was a great item that made it possible for us to view times in a wider array of circumstances. The FM transmitter has been a welcome addition also. And on it goes.

It was only the recent discussion about some of the elaborate high tech means to get time slips to drivers that I think we've started to go overboard. But I've seen this trend before. We discuss the most elaborate high tech, out in left field items this side of Star Trek, and end up with something affordable, reliable and practical most of the time. If we have to explore the extreme to make sure we end up with something reasonable, I'm ok with that.

Mike Whitney's philosophy of simplifying setup time and encouraging us to stay away from items that have to stay "stocked" and require maintenance is a good one. What ever we decide to do for the next generation of "gadgets" should follow that line of thought.

Since my first event back in 1988, I've seen the club go through various periods and philosophies of leadership. I've seen it emphasized from the top that we shouldn't spend money to the point that people were spending vast amounts of time to fabricate this and that when it could have been purchased for $50. This can lead to frustration, low quality stuff, wasted time and effort. It also can be a philosophy which devalues the time those contributing really have to put into things. We need to make sure members that are willing to help are putting their time into things that cannot be purchased at Radio Shack, such as looking for good sites, or finding a new bus, etc. Of course, that process must be managed so it doesn't get out of control. One thing I've never really see us do, is to actually set a published budget and stick to it. That actually has pros and cons.

I do see room for us to develop a more formal process for approving the spending of major funds. That has to be handled carefully though and well thought out to ensure that we don't put handcuffs on the leadership from continuing to make progress. Our current structure and mode of making decisions may not be perfect, but it does seem to work. It all hinges on getting good people in the right office. We place a tremendous amount of trust and power in our officers and leadership. I'm afraid that if we clip too much of that off through some bureaucratic process, that we'd also make it less desirable for good leaders to assume those positions.
We've been fortunate in that for quite awhile now, we've had good people in the right places and the results have been evident.

I'm happy to pay $25.00 for a quality autox. Our events, even the ones with glitches, usually are very well run. Part of that is having good equipment. Part of that is having good people. It takes both.

I've been to events where the timing equipment didn't work, or the run groups were horribly screwed up, or the courses were just plain stupid. I've even seen events go so badly that all the times were lost and the day turned into fun runs. All the equipment in the world probably wouldn't have saved most of those events as they were mistakes made by people either before or during the event. So, while equipment is important, good people are required to make the event go well.

If there is one thing we can improve on, it is how we manage all of the club documents and how each generation of leadership passes on lessons learned to the next group. We must make sure we develop, document, and protect the core knowledge of the club and pass it on the next generation. Because we always have a new rotation of people somewhere in the process, this will forever be our biggest challenge.

My .02 worth.

Miles


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:53 pm 
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jimpastorius wrote:
I wonder if we simplified it down, if we could run more events. Why can a local club run 12-16 events and we run 8? Do the gadgets and technologies give us more runs or more events?


Well, that's a good question. Reliable gadgets can help us get more runs, start on time, avoid timer delays, etc. so getting more runs is possible.
Incidentally, we have become so efficient these days that we need to consider if we should raise the entry limit to 130 or 140. This would generate revenue, help with the eternal worker shortage crisis, and we'd still get four runs in.

Jim, I will point out that there are 18 weekends on the autocross/rallycross calendar now and there are five more weekends on the track calendar. That's 23 weekends (including the Christmas party). That doesn't include the weekends we usually support the EV Challenge, or the Viper Club, etc. That adds at least a few more.

A few years ago, we had all that plus a monthly night series, but at least it didn't take up weekends....

There might be room for more events, but at some point I think we'd have to develop a different set of officers to manage them so we didn't burn out our current staff. For people with families, heavy work/travel schedules, and other obligations, we might be doing all we can handle.

Imagine for a moment that there was a Saturday series of autocrosses and a Sunday series of autocrosses. Some of them were on different weekends. Each would have its own set of officers and managers. Maybe, just maybe something like that could work.

I think the trick to adding more autox events would be to find a way to do it that does not add stress to the currently elected crew that's doing the job of handling those events.

Jim, if you added another 4 to 8 events a year, what would your proposal be? Would the same people continue to run them that do now? Or would it be different VPs, timing, etc. (kind of like a parallel organizational structure?) Would we worry about trying to avoid conflicts with other THSCC events, such as the rallyx and track programs?

I'd be interested in your vision for how something like that might take shape. After the night series died, there was some discussion about a Friday afternoon series at Sanford. There is still an effort underway to locate a site that could support another night series. So, it is possible that THSCC could support more autox events...... depending on the who, when, where, etc. of the details.

Of course some would say that if you want to autocross more than 8 weekends a year, just run with other clubs in the region. THSCC doesn't have to be the sole supplier to a persons autocross fun.

Thoughts?

Miles


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 10:17 pm 
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jimpastorius wrote:
I wonder if we simplified it down, if we could run more events. Why can a local club run 12-16 events and we run 8? Do the gadgets and technologies give us more runs or more events?


Ok, so Jim nominates himself for AX VP in 2006

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 10:51 pm 
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jimpastorius wrote:
I wonder if we simplified it down, if we could run more events. Why can a local club run 12-16 events and we run 8? Do the gadgets and technologies give us more runs or more events?


One reason that we don't run more Auto-Xs like that other club is We have the Time Trial program and the Rally/ Rally-X program. And we don't bake our brains out in the sun almost every weekend during June and July like we as a club used to. :soap:

My $.02

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:48 am 
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I vote for more gadgets. Mike can play "Q" in this 007 film. I'm all for automated voice times, wireless timers, wireless speakers, even and bar coding the start and finish.

When I heard Mark wanted to use transponders for the TT I was excited that yet another "gadget" would be employed in our club. 8)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:22 am 
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Gagets if they actually improve the quality of the event, not just "ain't we clever" stuff. I would really like to see an annoucer station laptop tie in. Couldn't it also be used to drive the aux printer? I'm wondering if Rally cross should be split off into it's own division like time trials/track is so as not to drain AX resources/manpower since it apeals to a limited group.
I also think that we should be lobbying the city/county to build us an AX pad. They are willing to spend millions to build shooting ranges, soccer fields, lighted tennis courts, and skateboard parks.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:44 am 
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I am a Geek, so I voted for gadgets.

But, to address what Jim brought up, "gadgets" does not have to equal "complex". What is needed (I and think it is happening) is lots of planning and research to make sure stuff is reliable, idiot proof and integrates into our existing systems as much as is possible. Something like a regular phone can be "complex", but it is pretty much a commodity item these days because it is cheap, reliable and easy to use. The “transformer” bus is the ideal solution. You drive up, place cones on course, push a button and it is all setup and ready to go.

On a semi-related note…

I don’t want to appear to be trivializing the difficult job of securing a new site, but my wish list would be a solution for the lack of sites in the RDU area. I probably would be willing to pay more if it would help secure a closer site. But that is a different topic/deadhorse.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:44 am 
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Now an announcer display I think would be a good idea. IIRC, AXware supports that, and it's got all kinds of cool stuff like the person's position in class, the difference to their previous best time, etc. Of course it also displays the penalties, which is something right now that the T&S workers are having difficulty communicating to the announcer.

As for the rallycross idea, I guess I don't see how it's draining resources (excepting a few sheets of printer paper) or manpower from the autocross program...

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