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 Post subject: Hmm GS is going to not be fun for celica's...
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:52 pm 
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http://www.northamericanmotoring.com/fo ... hp?t=38943

That being said, last years winning Celica was about a half second slower than the times I was running. Robert ran almost a second faster in the MINI on a fairly fast 33 second course. He took three runs in it and each one was faster than his fastest time in the Celica. Both cars were on brand new V710's. My MINI is 100% stock (except for V710's) and Roberts Celica is well develpoed.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:01 pm 
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I still think a well driven Celica can win Nationals, even with the Cooper S having an LSD. It'll just be tougher now. Not too many people get as much out of a car as Rob Carpenter, so the results are hard to say.

Garfield with be the best litmus test, but a lot of top Celica GT drivers have bailed on the class. My guess is the Cooper S gets reclassed to D-stock after this year using the 12 month rule. - AB

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:38 pm 
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Aaron Buckley wrote:
I still think a well driven Celica can win Nationals, even with the Cooper S having an LSD. It'll just be tougher now. Not too many people get as much out of a car as Rob Carpenter, so the results are hard to say.

Garfield with be the best litmus test, but a lot of top Celica GT drivers have bailed on the class. My guess is the Cooper S gets reclassed to D-stock after this year using the 12 month rule. - AB


The WRXes will eagerly be awaiting it's ascention....

:twisted: :twisted:

- brian ;)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:05 pm 
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What WRXes? :lol:

ProSolo maybe, but WRX will be smoked anywhere else.

The question is, can the Mini hang with the Type AAARRRGGGHHH


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:38 pm 
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That's why we're no longer running the Celi. We'll see more in ATL with Garfield in GS and Beth Strelnick driving it in L1, but I really think it has such a stranglehold that nothing else will stand a chance against it. Aaron seems to be the only one still championing the Celica, all the other top Celica drivers have bailed. I don't think you'll see Chiles bring one out until he's certain that it won't get reclassed before nationals, why spoil his own chances for a jacket by showing it's true potential early. The non- LSD Mini would have won GS @ nationals in 04 if it hadn't poured 2nd day, They had no good rain tires available to run whereas Carpenter was handed a brand new set of Ecstas that AM, and was last out second driver on very quickly drying course. Chiles would have won GS by 1.4 sec in his HS base Mini @ last weekend NT.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:00 pm 
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While I don't agree with the SCCA's decision to put the '05 Cooper-S in the current GS, I also don't agree that the Celica is a total has-been.

If anything, this might be a great chance for someone to get a wonderful car to run locally that is every bit as quick as a Cooper-S (local events aren't typically won by a car, rather the driver).

The Celica is way, way, way. way, way more tire friendly than a cooper, and uses cheaper tires to start with. It's also got a bigger trunk.

Did I say that the Celica is more tire friendly?

If I didn't already have a mis-classed varient of the Celica, I'd be driving a Celica GT. Sally and I actually came "this" || close to trading in the GTS when we bought our Tundra. The deal would have been a GT *and* a Tundra all at once. In the end, the GTS is just a much nicer car to have as a daily driver (just for the leather wrapped steering wheel if nothing else).

Scott


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:34 pm 
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Kevin Allen wrote:
What WRXes? :lol:

ProSolo maybe, but WRX will be smoked anywhere else.

The question is, can the Mini hang with the Type AAARRRGGGHHH


Answer = NO 8)


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:42 pm 
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Chuck Frank wrote:
The non- LSD Mini would have won GS @ nationals in 04 if it hadn't poured 2nd day, They had no good rain tires available to run whereas Carpenter was handed a brand new set of Ecstas that AM, and was last out second driver on very quickly drying course.


Where are you getting your data from? The top 3 cars after day 1 were Celicas: It went Kenny Sorenson, Rob Carpenter, then Rob Foley? Granted, Carpeneter did win by a landslide on day 2, but that comes down to grid position and luck.

I can't believe that anyone would think even with the 'correct' tire that the Celica is easier to drive than a Mini with the 'wrong' tire in wet conditions, especially someone who's driven a Celica more than a handful of times. :roll:

I think that Carpenter is doing himself a dis-service by not running the car at a few events. If the new 'S' is that dominant, then what better litmus test to show this against than the previous year National champion?

If I had a GT, I'd welcome the challenge instead of running away from it. - AB

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 9:27 am 
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Aaron Buckley wrote:

I can't believe that anyone would think even with the 'correct' tire that the Celica is easier to drive than a Mini with the 'wrong' tire in wet conditions, especially someone who's driven a Celica more than a handful of times. :roll:

I think that Carpenter is doing himself a dis-service by not running the car at a few events. If the new 'S' is that dominant, then what better litmus test to show this against than the previous year National champion?

If I had a GT, I'd welcome the challenge instead of running away from it. - AB


Make us an offer!

To paraphrase: A (non LSD) Mini is easier to drive in the wet on street tires than a Celi on full tread ecstas... Aren't you arguing with yourself? Maybe not easier, just a lot faster.
Carpenter sold his Celi right after driving the new Mini. Some read the writing on the wall, where others keep running their head into it. :roll:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 9:41 am 
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Where are you getting your data from? The top 3 cars after day 1 were Celicas: It went Kenny Sorenson, Rob Carpenter, then Rob Foley? Granted, Carpeneter did win by a landslide on day 2, but that comes down to grid position and luck.
I can't believe that anyone would think even with the 'correct' tire that the Celica is easier to drive than a Mini with the 'wrong' tire in wet conditions, especially someone who's driven a Celica more than a handful of times. :roll:
I think that Carpenter is doing himself a dis-service by not running the car at a few events. If the new 'S' is that dominant, then what better litmus test to show this against than the previous year National champion?
If I had a GT, I'd welcome the challenge instead of running away from it. - AB


The "data" was from what we saw with our own eyes, not others memories, while in the same grid running in the same class. Luck certainly plays a factor in any sport to some degree, but I think Rob has a lot more talent than luck. As far as the tires, for the conditions at the very moments that each car ran and the tires that those particular drivers had available at the time (and this is fact as I watched and policed the others during the event myself for obvious reasons) ...well you see the results. Yes Kenny was ahead the first day on the first course...again I know, I was standing right there. The "data" is based on what happened at the entire event especially Sunday on the second course in variable conditions. What happens both days determines the winner.

And who, in your opinion, is running away? Carpenter, me or the others who ran Celica GTs last year? I don't consider going to another class to enjoy the sport while you see what shakes down with a newly classed car is running anywhere. I think it's good judgement. Besides you said yourself in an earlier thread about this subject this year that, at least in our case, we had a perfectly good CS car to run. Granted going to a class with Eric, Donnie, Rob, Mike, Michael, Darrin and others will certainly be a learning and challenging experience for us. Although so was running with Mark, Ian and Brian in GS. But then you know yourself only too well that running with the best only makes you better. From what I've heard, Rob has his own reasons for going to CS, and his reasons are what matters.

The alternative for GS drivers is to purchase an '05 MCS.

In my opinion, any car and any driver can win on a given day, but the odds appear to be favor of the '05 MCS in GS, especially in Pro. In ProSolo it's like running a DS car with a GS pax. That's my impression after the first Pro this year, and since Beth is going to drive Brian's in Atlanta I suspect that the Strelnieks are aware of this as well. Most prosolo drivers have probably noticed, I can guarantee that the prosolo ladies classes have.

On a larger more open course, with newer Mini drivers, yes I think the Celi with an experienced Celi driver could still win. If the car is set up, you limit any wheelspin, have your timing down and use it's power to pull out, especially in a sweeper, before the Mini 's power can set down and catch up or have it's own wheelspin issues ,yes the Celi can still do it. It's just a lot of ifs.

We'll all just have to see what shakes out. You just don't know what could happen in the long run.



I know, you just wanted another chance to use your favorite emoticon.

Hey Chuck that's Aaron's icon! Let him play with it.

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Last edited by Donna Frank on Tue Mar 15, 2005 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 9:53 am 
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Just to be clear...

My Celica IS NOT I repeat NOT for sale. :D

I love my car. :thumbsup:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:27 pm 
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Donna Frank wrote:
The "data" was from what we saw with our own eyes, not others memories, while in the same grid running in the same class. Luck certainly plays a factor in any sport to some degree, but I think Rob has a lot more talent than luck. As far as the tires, for the conditions at the very moments that each car ran and the tires that those particular drivers had available at the time (and this is fact as I watched and policed the others during the event myself for obvious reasons) ...well you see the results. Yes Kenny was ahead the first day on the first course...again I know, I was standing right there. The "data" is based on what happened at the entire event especially Sunday on the second course in variable conditions. What happens both days determines the winner.

And who, in your opinion, is running away? Carpenter, me or the others who ran Celica GTs last year? I don't consider going to another class to enjoy the sport while you see what shakes down with a newly classed car is running anywhere. I think it's good judgement.

From what I've heard, Rob has his own reasons for going to CS, and his reasons are what matters.


Rob has his reasons and he may be fine with it, but he was the most vocal person disagreeing when the classing came out. Rob and I are good friends and have talked about it, and he feels that the Celica is not the top gun, thus he sold it. I just don't agree with it. When you look at some of the results so far, it's not dominant, and experienced Mini drivers have driven them. A lot of them are less than happy with the new LSD combined with shorter gearing.

As for Chiles laying it down in the HS car in San Diego, well, his car is just slightly more prepped than any of the '05 Mini S, and the course was a combonation of speed maintenance and power, and he only needed 2nd gear, where the '05 S was between 2nd and 3rd. Look at what Jacobs did in HS to get a better idea of what is common, for Chiles drove the wheels off the car.

To me this is a non-issue anyway, I could care less about it. I just thought it Chuck's interpretation of Nationals was interesting, and I wanted to give my opinion of it.

Donna Frank wrote:
Besides you said yourself in an earlier thread about this subject this year that, at least in our case, we had a perfectly good CS car to run.


Yes, your CS car is good. Is it the car to have? No, but it's probably only giving up .3 second on a 60 second course to a '99 Sport Package. Probably similar to the Celica GT vs. the new Mini S. - AB

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:09 pm 
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Chuck Frank wrote:
I don't think you'll see Chiles bring one out until he's certain that it won't get reclassed before nationals, why spoil his own chances for a jacket by showing it's true potential early.


Click Here

And Here

I guess we'll see what it can do. - AB[/url]

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:37 pm 
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Chuck Frank wrote:
I don't think you'll see Chiles bring one out until he's certain that it won't get reclassed before nationals, why spoil his own chances for a jacket by showing it's true potential early.



http://www.scca.com/_Filelibrary/File/s ... ta-sun.pdf

Looks like he's brought it out already, winning in Hotlanta yesterday.

(also congrats to Hoppe for winning STX)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:03 pm 
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Funny thing is, it was a tight course, with lot of digging out of corners, yet the 2nd place Celica seemed to do well, without the LSD that the Mini has... and Jeff certainly isn't the driver of the former owner. - AB

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