THSCC Forums

This post is directed mostly towards Kevin Hoff with regard to his email to the evolution list about Miata camber settings. I am having email issues and can't reply to that thread so I thought I would start a topic here.

I used to run a "contrary" alignment in my Miatas FWIW. I tried some of the standard alignments from miata.net and was never happy with them. The last camber settings in the turbo yellow car were -2.2F/-1.5R with as much front caster as I could get. I needed more front camber (in an auto-x setting with R-compound tires) and was planning on changing it last year but I wound up selling the car.

After playing around with spring rates and sway bars, I had settled on 450F/350R springs (GC's) with Jackson racing sways front and rear. I had the big hollow Racing Beat front bar on for a while but I felt it was too much bar with the spring rates I was running. With softer springs, the Racing Beat bar was great if that matters.

If I can help with any more info, just let me know.

Jim

I've heard of a lot of CSP guys running stock rear bars instead of larger aftermarket ones. What's your take, Jim?

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

Thanks Jim -- yes I've gotten several very interesting private messages from some fairly well known folks beyond what's getting posted on the evo list. It seems the miata.net "consensus" alignment is just another instance of the lemming mentality over there. Diane warned me...

<edit>Those of you who are running the numbers from miata.net, no insult intended. One of the people on the evo list summed it up pretty well -- those 3 alignments are very forgiving on the street and likely won't bite.</edit> Since my alignment is already whacked I'm going to try all sorts of fun stuff at the tnt -- I fully expect a more normal RWD alignment to end up faster than the funky miata.net alignment.

Oh, on swaybars, lots of people have run with either (TINY) stock or no rear sway in CSP Miatas. With no limited slip I'm probably going to end up disconnecting the rear bar on mine, particularly if springs happen sooner rather than later.

--Kevin H.

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2003 WRX (again!)

I've seen arguments about alignment specs on that forum ever since I bought my car. There are so many variables with that car, and then throwing in personal preference, you'll never get anything that resembles a consensus. Which "funky" miata.net alignment are you currently evaluating? Off the top of my head, there are:

Lanny - really close to stock specs. A street alignment to maximize tire wear. Not really meant for our crowd.
Miq Millman- more aggressive than the Lanny - more -camber and caster, but not all that aggressive
Icehawk- more of a real auto-x alignment. Pretty aggressive. Not fun to drive in the rain.

I'm running the Icehawk specs, which have been pretty kind during auto-x. I ran the VIR-F HPDE this past weekend with that alignment, and it was nice and neutral on track also. I'm running Bilstein coilovers and JR sways front and rear.

I'm not of the "lemming" mentality, but I'll definitely look for conventional wisdom from the Miata.net folks and use that for a baseline. For my next alignment, I'll probably raise the front end a little, go for a tiny bit more negative camber in front, and compromise on caster a tad.

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Tom Freeman
'98 M3/4/5 | '93 Spec3 325i | '12 TSX sport wagon | '03 Tahoe
Team Silver Bullets '91 240SX

I use the "Icehawk" settings too (lemminged after Freeman at a local shop, but that's a whole other deleted thread )

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

It totally depends on your overall setup I believe. However, no matter what the setup, a smaller rear bar will help you put power down better. When I first started running the turbo car, I removed the rear bar and ran with the Racing Beat hollow front. It helped me get used to the car (mostly the powerband) but it was not the ideal setup for me as I later discovered. After a few events, I moved to the stock rear bar which helped make the car turn better but you had to be more careful with the throttle.

Ultimately I wound up with my setup listed above which was the best overall balance for my driving style. It was a little bit harder to put the power down coming out of slow corners but the car was so much better everywhere else that I was much faster overall. Perhaps if I was running slightly stiffer rear springs I would have settled on less rear bar. It's also possible that my turbo car transferred more weight to the rear due to the, um, enhanced acceleration such that I could get away more rear bar than a N/A car. It was a shame I never got to run the car with fresh tires since by the time I found the balance I was looking for, my tires were long past their prime.

There are just so many variables that it's impossible to get a setup from the 'net and have it be ideal for your car and driving style. Unless I know what the entire setup the "CSP" guys are running, it's hard to say what I would do with the rear bar. The biggest key is don't be shy about experimenting with your setup and be prepared to go against the "conventional" setups listed on the 'net. Add to that the fact that identical setups can and will act differently on different cars, you really need to find what works for you. The 'net setups can put you in the ballpark but you really need to read between the lines as to which ballpark the setup is intended for.

As a side note, the setup I ran while auto-x'ing was much different than the setup I used when I ran track events with one of my N/A Miatas. I tried the track setup one time at an auto-x event (my first event with Tarheel after many years) and it was nearly undrivable. Needless to say, I made some big changes for the next event...

Jim

That's why we need a DIY alignment workshop...so we can play around without spending a grand at the alignment shop.

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'99 Mk IV Jetta VR6 now claimed by the better half.

'90 Miata A-package, Floats like a butterfly and buzzes like a BEE with loudspeakers.

Here's a pretty good miata alignment page: http://www.racerwebs.com/alignment
I also use Icehawk's settings and have been pretty happy with them.

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Mike