THSCC Forums

Just something to keep in mind. Regardless of the merits that you mention. Most of your customers don't like pivot cones. Sometimes they are a necessary evil. Sometimes they are just annoying and leave a bad taste in your mouth.

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In need of car.

Good point Jason, luckily - they are indeed a rare element!

Noah

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Club Webmaster
-2014 Mazda 6 SkyActiv DD
-2002 Honda S2000 totaled by deer

The course was great. Sorry I had to leave early. We had concert tickets, but now our dog isn't feeling well . Thanks for the officers and volunteers who helped make an awesome event.

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2012 MX-5 Sport SUV

I enjoyed the event and thanks to those of you who did the work!

Pivots are not so rare at THSCC events this year. Both NCCAR had "pivots" or almost full circle and Danville just had 2 pivots in the same course. No "biggie" with a powerful car with power steering and "decent but still big" turning circle.

FYI the speed around the single cones today, according to DL1 data, was 16 mph on my best run. This was about 1 g lateral g's.

Top speed before the lane change was about 65 mph.

I would post video except for the fact that some dummy (that would be me) forgot to remove the lens cap from the camera.

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

Awesome to get some telemetry, thanks Dick! I really want to get a setup going that would capture that sort of data....

Lets close this thread up with the usual fashion of showing your runs, etc, but lets also talk about what people think might have been better to change, add, or remove. I want to have a more option discussion about this sort of stuff so that people are at least aware of what their colleagues in the club enjoy. We all know that each event is going to have some Event Chairs, so we need some more people to step up and help out.

There is always lots of help..... we basically just throw cones out in large spaces . That being said, if you are interested in event chairing an event along with another, there are usually 1-2 people (GM such as myself or another autocross VP, and the bus driver, etc). That way you can learn from course setup, and add your own twist to things.

Getting off the rant here, I think feedback on what people liked and didn't like would be great.

Here are Rob and I's fastest runs from today: http://youtu.be/s4iXA0CW8o4

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Club Webmaster
-2014 Mazda 6 SkyActiv DD
-2002 Honda S2000 totaled by deer

Results are up!

Class Results
Pax Results
Raw Results

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2017 THSCC Autocross Chief of Timing and Scoring

03 Nissan Altima
02 Honda S2000

This was the first time in a while that I felt really good about going to autocross. The course was awesome, the weather was pretty decent, and we had just enough people to warrant 3 run groups. Had enough people to put 2 at every station and have people take photos as well.

Oh yeah, the printer wasn't a colossal piece of shit, either; it only tripped the breaker once.

The 3rd heat dragged on a bit longer than expected, but two (or three) driver cars are always a bit goofy. Great course Rob + Art.

I enjoyed the course and pivot cones are a part of AXing. I didn't have any problem with them. They are just another element to learn to get around.

I loved the first part of the course it was fast and I was having a blast trying to go through the sweeper without spinning the car. The double cone slaloms were um...challenging to get through and I unexpectedly liked the finish segment.

We have to be a bit more instructive apparently with courseworkers. I stressed in the novice meeting about looking at the cones and the cars at their stations but there was a cone out of place by a bunch (first cone of the slalom) that was out of place for multiple drivers. I saw it on my run Mike Miller saw it on his. I saw it on the run I was riding with a novice on and no one noticed. I didn't stop because it actually helped me being out of place I don't know if the courseworkers there were novices or experienced folks but either way we have to impress on people that it is important to actually work the course when you are out there.

Here's my best Run

http://youtu.be/AJfBcqC6vV8?list=UUG4i3SAqzPI-kHZDrvDuCMA

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1990 Faded Reddish CSP Lite Miata
2002 Electron Blue Corvette Z06
2005 Mazda 6 Wagon
2003 Nissan Pathfinder DTV (Dog Transport Vehicle)

I crunched a few more numbers this morning since they are available and might have some trivia interest to the geeks among us. All from my "best" run (6th):

Percentage of run time at full throttle: 26%

Accelerating (part or full throttle): 76%

Right turns versus left turns (any amount): 55/45%

Speeds in mph: 11% between 16 and 29, 25% between 34 and 40, 8% between 54 and 66.

Time/distance in first sweeper between going from full throttle entering corner to full throttle on exit: 6.3 seconds/379 feet.

Time/distance in first pivot between going from full throttle approaching the corner back to full throttle on exit: 6.6 seconds/224 feet.

Time/distance in finish oval between going from full throttle for the left entering the oval back to full throttle: 9.1 seconds/363 feet

Dick

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

I enjoyed the course as it had a combination of elements that were challenging but also rewarding when driven right. I would assume the cone count was low? IMO always a sign of a great course when counts are low...or, well, in my case perhaps not being aggressive enough as I don't think I hit any cones which means I wasn't tight enough on them in spots I would assume (still trying to get used to the "wide tail" on the M3, perhaps overcompensating).

Pivot cones:
(1) I loved Dick's data - 16mph, 1g. Awesome! I would imagine I was in that ballpark too. It's such a trade-off between distance traveled versus speed, and I always try to shoot for minimum distance traveled as the first goal, enough so that I tried the 1st pivot counterclockwise one time, and it was definitely a shorter path (Dick did you try that path once? Data?), but the exit was pinched back too much. That run (3rd) was slower than my prior by a few tenths, but I screwed up the 2nd pivot getting way too loose on entry and lost a lot of time there.

(2) Watching Rob perfectly drift the sweeper with those monster V710s out back in the Z06 was pretty cool too, but also seeing him do the 2nd pivot was a thing of beauty -- going well wide on entry, right on the grass edge with rocks clinging like mad, and then manage speed just right around it and blast through to the lights. Well done Rob! I'm guessing it was really fun driving it too.

(3) Which brings up that pivot cone topic again... Speed versus distance. I'd love to datalog multiple ways of handling a pivot cone, but I think it comes down to what is after the cone to some extent too. If it leads out to a long straight, perhaps it's better to take a bit longer path and shoot for a slightly higher exit speed/really get on the back side of the cone as much as possible.

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Current stable:
2019 BMW M2 Competition slicktop 6MT
2011 BMW M3 sedan slicktop 6MT
2007 BMW 328i wagon (slushbox for now)
1975 CanAm 125MX2

That's exactly what I told Rob yesterday afternoon. I too enjoyed the course in-spite of the pivot cones. I really struggled all day with big sweeper which is odd for me. 1 or 2 PSI changes in the rear tires could give me massive oversteer or understeer.

Here is my first run with a touch too much air in the rear tires

http://youtu.be/q_7hJCwdn80

I tried editing out the first 25 seconds of nothing on Youtube but it hasn't cut that part out yet.

My fastest run got screwed up in the upload last night I'll redo it when I get home.

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02 Focus SVT
STF 9

Chuck - I did not try the counterclockwise direction. Too much slow earlier and accelerate later since mine is probably more of a "straight line needed" car for both of those than yours.

I exited the lane change at 40 mph and 1.5 seconds later was at 54 before lifting for the clockwise direction pivot. Total time/distance between lane change exit and lifting for left after pivot (49 mph): 9.7 seconds/455 ft.

Pivot braking zone time/distance: 3.1 seconds including trail braking/150 ft.

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

FYI: If any of you "geek oriented" folks are wondering. The data above is from a Race Technologies DL1 with a RT OBDII adapter for rpm and throttle position. GPS and accelerometer data from the DL1. Wired antenna on car roof.

In addition (when I remember to remove the lens cap - Checklist will be created before next event) video is recorded using an RT Video4.

In addition to that for quick review between runs I'm using SoloStorm on an Android phone. SS gets data from the DL1.

RT Analysis is extremely powerful and has "autocross oriented" settings. Fun to play with after events.

SoloStorm also is powerful and is VERY autocross oriented. Some of the things it does RT doesn't do so it is also useful after events.

Both export to csv format. SoloStorm also exports to RT format assuming the data source was a DL1. This can be useful if for some rare reason and/or user error the DL1 or Video4 did not record the data. Yesterday I was afraid that I had also screwed that up (I hadn't) but knew that SS would save my butt.

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

Chuck: You set some blazing times in your M3. Also, everyone I talked to was extremely pleased with how you were wheeling the car. My personal favorite was leaving new sets of arcing parallel lines through the initial sweeper with a little bit of wiggle near the end.

Noah and I made a spring rate change on his car that really made a big difference. I did it the old fashioned way with a spring rubber. The car was definitely faster setup that way and easier to drive. I got 1 good launch from the S2000 finally. So I'm 1 for 25 now I think.

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2006 Civic Si - #24 HS for 2015

2005 GMC Sierra
1991 318is Garage Ornament