Autox Street Tire Advice

Zach Hill · **Posted:** Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:44 pm

I think there's very little (probably less than 0.5%) of a performance difference between any of the top street tires: ZI, ZII, Rival, RS3, RE-11. The Rivals don't do well in the wet, but might have a little more grip in the dry. Bottom line, I don't think you can go wrong with any of them. I've run extensively on RS-3 and ZII's, and I would buy either one again, probably dependent on price.

Gwen Habenicht · **Posted:** Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:24 pm

Steven Carter wrote:

Naturally, contingency plays a role in decisionmaking as well, and probably is a higher priority for National-level drivers than local drivers. Pretty sure BFG and Hankook have a nice arrangement, can't say I know a lot about Dunlop.

BFG has a great contingency program. Dunlop has none at this time. What I observed in Lincoln, FWIW, was that while Dunlops might be a tick faster straight out of the box, according to some last minute testing on the T&T course, several drivers thought they fell off quicker than the Rivals. They don't like to be hot and Bob Smith, who has several championships to his credit and ran his TT in RTA,found that he simply couldn't get his Dunlops cooled down, and thought it cost him. Rivals, as I've mentioned before, seem to handle the heat. So, I guess it's a toss up, depending on weather, and size availability.

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:41 am

Adding to Gwen's comments (and I think in agreement with them) here is a post on a different RRAX thread (STX battle - FRS/BRZ vs E36 . . . post 434) from "Neal" who I assume is Neal Tovsen who finished 5th in STX this year. Not a National Champ like Gwen but I think he shows up near the top a lot)

"We've been running BFGs all season, but they definitely didn't feel as good at Spring Nats as they seemed to on our local surfaces. We found out we had bad shocks at that event, so that was part of it. But just in case, I bought a set of Dunlops a couple weeks before Nats.

The data at the TNT course showed that, on any given corner, the Dunlops and the BFGs were almost identical in terms of G's, MPH, and time. But the Dunlops were much easier to feel at the limit on the Lincoln concrete, so I felt more confident and made fewer mistakes. In the end, I was about .3 faster running Dunlops on the TNT course, just because of fewer mistakes. Both sets were 255's, full-tread, with about 40-60 runs.

What we didn't anticipate was how much the Dunlops dislike heat. We sprayed the crap out of them between runs. They didn't fall off so much that I'd use it as the main excuse for standing on my first runs both days. But they certainly felt the best on the first runs both days.

I agree with what was said earlier about the Hankooks. We've run them the past 3 years. When they're "on", they're "on". But they seemed to have strange "off" days. They felt AWFUL on Day 2 last year at Nats. Surface temperature? Rubber on the course? I still don't know...probably one of those.

I've driven some STC/S cars on Toyos at events where the course was rubbering-in. And I've compared my times often over the years to folk like Jason Frank and Andy Canack throughout the day in Milwaukee, which can actually rubber-in even at their local events. I am starting to suspect that the Toyos might be the only street tire that handles a hot day on a rubbered-in track without falling off a lot. I think that might be a big part of the picture. But that's still speculation, and difficult to test properly...

Considering their support of SCCA/Solo, and the fact that Pete Calhoun is "one of us", I would really like to see BFG win. But unfortunately it just isn't turning out that way.

On the up-side, we've got a set of BFGs with 170+ runs on them and they're still almost as fast as the new set. In fact, they were faster until the new set had a few heat-cycles on it. They've worn very evenly and still have a lot of tread. So unless you're really looking for that last couple tenths (and maybe only specifically on the Lincoln surface), the BFG is still a great tire.

Neal"

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:58 am

His comments seem to pretty much seal the deal on Rivals as the tire to spend money on (assuming one is concerned about longevity and running on various forms of aggregate/asphalt -- perhaps if you're just looking for "the" tire to run on the concrete at Nationals you might have another objective). If you want a tire to drive at local events (essentially all asphalt, some with huge aggregate) that wears extremely well, doesn't heat cycle out quickly, is easy to drive at/over the limit, then I think the Rival makes a strong case at the tire to spend money on.

Eric Peterson · **Joined:** Mon Sep 01, 2003 10:24 am **Posts:** 494

Thanks again everyone for the great feedback! This will be a big help as we try to figure out what to do next year.

jeremy gast · **Posted:** Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:25 am

Oh Johns rx8, we have had Rivals all season. At the beginning of the season they were are on 18x7.5 mazdaspeed 3 wheels. At the last event we had them installed on the some stock 18x8 rx8 wheels. The tires def felt ALOT better on the wider wheels.

RodneyWright · **Posted:** Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:04 am

Just to hijack this thread, looks like 3 will return next year as the autox monster it is. Taking advantage of the new rules, I'll run camber plates and some lighter 16" wheels. Right now I'm running 17x6.5 stock wheels, but these things are boat anchors in regard to weight. I picked up some 16x6.5 wheels from Brice that are much lighter. Finding any aftermarket 6.5" wide wheel is impossible.

That said, I'm going to need new shoes for next year. I'll have a small amount of neg camber on the car. According to what I've read, I can only get about 1.5 degrees of camber w/ stock springs and camber plates, but it's better than nothing. I'll probably sell the current 17x225 rs3's I have and pick up some 16" somethings. From everything I've read the rivals seem to be the tire of choice. Looks like there is only 1 tire size for a 16" wheel, 225x50. Rim width range is 6-8" for the 225 tire. Tread width per tirerack is 8.5, so that leaves me a 2" delta in regard to wheel vs tire. Not optimal per the info I've read, but don't see where I have a choice.

They make the rs3's in a 205x55 and tread width is 7.5, so only a 1" dif from rim vs tire, but man, I hate to give up that tread width.

Other recommendations?

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:14 am

I thought the camber plates were dropped from allowed mods?

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

Or you could always prep it for STF. A Mazda3 DID win STF this year you know.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:43 am

BriceJohnson wrote:

Or you could always prep it for STF. A Mazda3 DID win STF this year you know.

An underprepped one no less

.

Andrew Jonell · **Joined:** Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:43 pm **Posts:** 1350

BriceJohnson wrote:

Or you could always prep it for STF. A Mazda3 DID win STF this year you know.

Off topic, but how far off were the 2s?

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:04 am

Chuck Branscomb wrote:

I thought the camber plates were dropped from allowed mods?

Camber mods were dropped. The only change that survived was plus or minus 1 inch on wheel diameter from original. No width increase. No "electronics tinkering", etc. As an example for my 2012 non Brembo Mustang 5.0 the wheel options were 18X8 or 19X8.5 so I could run 17X8, 18X8, 18X8.5, 19X8, 19X8.5, or 20X8.5. Brembo versions which came with 19X9 could run 18X9, 19X9, or 20X9. Keep in mind that the offset allowance would be based on the stock wheel diameter/width you chose to increase or decrease from.

Keep in mind that the BOD can choose to reject any or all of the proposal.

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:09 am

Andrew Jonell wrote:

BriceJohnson wrote:

Or you could always prep it for STF. A Mazda3 DID win STF this year you know.

Off topic, but how far off were the 2s?

Third place: Winner in a 2008 3 was 142.317, third place in a 2012 2 was a 143.852. Second place Mini was 0.5 seconds behind the winner.

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/ass ... ionals.pdf

RodneyWright · **Posted:** Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:13 am

Chuck Branscomb wrote:

I thought the camber plates were dropped from allowed mods?

damn, ok, I guess those are off my shopping list now. Haven't seen the latest SCCA news. Still need tires though...

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:28 am

RodneyWright wrote:

Chuck Branscomb wrote:

I thought the camber plates were dropped from allowed mods?

damn, ok, I guess those are off my shopping list now. Haven't seen the latest SCCA news. Still need tires though...

I just double checked. Camber was still in the May Fastrack but specifically removed in the June Fastrack with the statement that the 2013 suspension rules will continue. The word "camber" does not show in a search of the August and September Fastracks and I haven't read anything in forums about it coming back into the proposal.

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