brake pads -- again

Emmie Fisher · **Posted:** Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:59 pm

I gotta get some brake pads, like, yesterday. We had the OEM pads on for the majority of all the autoXing we've done in the MINI. Probably about 2 years ago I figured the pads *had* to be about worn out. Carl checked 'em and, yep, they appeared to be about done. The OEM pads were really pretty good, but we thought we'd try a step up and go with Hawk HPSs. So, we put the Hawk HPS pads all around in prep for attending an event and, right away on the street, they were worse than the OEM pads. We thought maybe they just needed bedding for a while, but 2 years later, they still suck compared to the OEM pads. The HPSs provided less stopping *and* wore down *way* faster. Only plus to the HPSs has been that they don’t create nearly as much brake dust as the OEM pads.

So, we've been searching around on the web trying to find some other options besides the HPSs and OEMs. If it turns out to be between those 2, I guess we'll go with the OEMs. But, we've also seen folks talking about the EBC Redstuff pads which seem to be comparably priced to both the HPSs and OEMs. Then I hit up on somebody on a forum who says he sells all of these pads and he prefers the Ferodo DS2500s. Appears they make these DS2500s that will fit the MINI, but they are, like, twice the price of the OEMs, HPSs, and Redstuffs! If we were autoXing regularly, that price wouldn't be too awful, but I hate to fork out that much when probably 90% of their use will be on the street.

Anyone have experience with EBC Redstuff pads, or any other particular experience(s) that could help us decide?

Thanks.

Dustin Fredrickson · **Posted:** Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:25 pm

Emmie Fisher wrote:

I gotta get some brake pads, like, yesterday. We had the OEM pads on for the majority of all the autoXing we've done in the MINI. Probably about 2 years ago I figured the pads *had* to be about worn out. Carl checked 'em and, yep, they appeared to be about done. The OEM pads were really pretty good, but we thought we'd try a step up and go with Hawk HPSs. So, we put the Hawk HPS pads all around in prep for attending an event and, right away on the street, they were worse than the OEM pads. We thought maybe they just needed bedding for a while, but 2 years later, they still suck compared to the OEM pads. The HPSs provided less stopping *and* wore down *way* faster. Only plus to the HPSs has been that they don’t create nearly as much brake dust as the OEM pads.

So, we've been searching around on the web trying to find some other options besides the HPSs and OEMs. If it turns out to be between those 2, I guess we'll go with the OEMs. But, we've also seen folks talking about the EBC Redstuff pads which seem to be comparably priced to both the HPSs and OEMs. Then I hit up on somebody on a forum who says he sells all of these pads and he prefers the Ferodo DS2500s. Appears they make these DS2500s that will fit the MINI, but they are, like, twice the price of the OEMs, HPSs, and Redstuffs! If we were autoXing regularly, that price wouldn't be too awful, but I hate to fork out that much when probably 90% of their use will be on the street.

Anyone have experience with EBC Redstuff pads, or any other particular experience(s) that could help us decide?

Thanks.

Emmie, I had the same experience with HPS's on the Miata - didn't care for the feel _at all_, yet others really like them. Honestly, for a mostly street pad, I would consider just using a Wearever Gold - cheap and low risk if you don't like them, 30-40% coupons buy-online-pick-up-in-store any day of the week at Advance, and we ran 12+ hours on each of 2 sets of them last year at the 24-hour Chump race at VIR, and won at that. They're no race pad, but don't fall on their face in aggressive conditions, and have civil manners otherwise. Can't really speak to dusting with them, fwiw.

Ferodo 2500's, if I have my numbers right, are a pretty aggressive track pad, and will squeak like no tomorrow. Had these on the Miata - wouldn't recommend for the street at all. Hawk HP+ all day long if you're looking for something just a bit more aggressive than a typical street pad.

Another pad I liked is the Axxis Ultimates / ULT's - ran many of these on the Miata as well. Under track conditions with excessive heat, 10/10th's driving, they caused pretty bad rotor deposits up front (requiring premature rotor replacement), however, so I eventually stopped using them on the front (but still used on the back). They were good for street, and I think would make a good high performance AX pad with a little bite, and I think unlikely to have the deposit issues in AX conditions.

Good luck, ymmv, etc. etc.

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:34 pm

I absolutely loved the OEM brakes on the Celica. When they wore out, I didn't mess with a good things and bought new pads from Toyota. I still had the same great brakes.

Don't mess with a good thing.

Jordan Normark · **Posted:** Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:34 pm

I just replaced the OEM Mazda pads, front and rear, on our Protégé 5 with Advance Auto Parts "Silver" pads. Right away I noticed that they stopped better than the OEM pad, in fact braking in general feels on par with my Miata with HPS pads. They are also quiet and do not dust much. For around $50 total I am impressed.

RobLupella · **Posted:** Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:45 pm

Dustin Fredrickson wrote:

Emmie Fisher wrote:

I gotta get some brake pads, like, yesterday. We had the OEM pads on for the majority of all the autoXing we've done in the MINI. Probably about 2 years ago I figured the pads *had* to be about worn out. Carl checked 'em and, yep, they appeared to be about done. The OEM pads were really pretty good, but we thought we'd try a step up and go with Hawk HPSs. So, we put the Hawk HPS pads all around in prep for attending an event and, right away on the street, they were worse than the OEM pads. We thought maybe they just needed bedding for a while, but 2 years later, they still suck compared to the OEM pads. The HPSs provided less stopping *and* wore down *way* faster. Only plus to the HPSs has been that they don’t create nearly as much brake dust as the OEM pads.

So, we've been searching around on the web trying to find some other options besides the HPSs and OEMs. If it turns out to be between those 2, I guess we'll go with the OEMs. But, we've also seen folks talking about the EBC Redstuff pads which seem to be comparably priced to both the HPSs and OEMs. Then I hit up on somebody on a forum who says he sells all of these pads and he prefers the Ferodo DS2500s. Appears they make these DS2500s that will fit the MINI, but they are, like, twice the price of the OEMs, HPSs, and Redstuffs! If we were autoXing regularly, that price wouldn't be too awful, but I hate to fork out that much when probably 90% of their use will be on the street.

Anyone have experience with EBC Redstuff pads, or any other particular experience(s) that could help us decide?

Thanks.

Emmie, I had the same experience with HPS's on the Miata - didn't care for the feel _at all_, yet others really like them. Honestly, for a mostly street pad, I would consider just using a Wearever Gold - cheap and low risk if you don't like them, 30-40% coupons buy-online-pick-up-in-store any day of the week at Advance, and we ran 12+ hours on each of 2 sets of them last year at the 24-hour Chump race at VIR, and won at that. They're no race pad, but don't fall on their face in aggressive conditions, and have civil manners otherwise. Can't really speak to dusting with them, fwiw.

Ferodo 2500's, if I have my numbers right, are a pretty aggressive track pad, and will squeak like no tomorrow. Had these on the Miata - wouldn't recommend for the street at all. Hawk HP+ all day long if you're looking for something just a bit more aggressive than a typical street pad.

Another pad I liked is the Axxis Ultimates / ULT's - ran many of these on the Miata as well. Under track conditions with excessive heat, 10/10th's driving, they caused pretty bad rotor deposits up front (requiring premature rotor replacement), however, so I eventually stopped using them on the front (but still used on the back). They were good for street, and I think would make a good high performance AX pad with a little bite, and I think unlikely to have the deposit issues in AX conditions.

Good luck, ymmv, etc. etc.

+1 on the AXXIS pads. I used those on my Miata on the street as well as AX and for a couple of early track days. I think I have Bobcats on there now. (Ryan H. gave me a whole bunch of pads and I haven't worn through them yet). The Bobcats work well too.

Emmie Fisher · **Posted:** Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:47 pm

Thanks, y'all. Since I need them ASAP, we went ahead and ordered the "known quantity" OEMs this time. I'll refer back to this thread for the next set.

Zach Hill · **Posted:** Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:10 am

From what I understand the Axxis Ultimates were acquired by Stoptech, and are now sold as "Stoptech Street Performance" series. I've been using these on my S2000 for years and really like them. Low-ish dust levels, very quiet on the street (nothing like the squeal-happy Hawks), and bite like hell under hard braking. Oh, and they last quite a long time; currently I'm at 59K miles and 3 seasons of autox, and they still have plenty of pad left.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:37 am

Zach Hill wrote:

From what I understand the Axxis Ultimates were acquired by Stoptech, and are now sold as "Stoptech Street Performance" series. I've been using these on my S2000 for years and really like them. Low-ish dust levels, very quiet on the street (nothing like the squeal-happy Hawks), and bite like hell under hard braking. Oh, and they last quite a long time; currently I'm at 59K miles and 3 seasons of autox, and they still have plenty of pad left.

I heard that too (they used to be called PBR too). However, the Axxis Ultimates I had on the WRX were dusty and squealy but could take a lot of heat without fade (3100 lb car at Patriot course with my lead foot and they still felt perfect...just smelled bad

) and the Stoptech SPs on Jeremy's car are neither of those so I'm not sure it is an exact 1 to 1 rebranding.

Rob Keehner · **Posted:** Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:25 pm

Performance Friction Z rated pads are awesome but not priced awesome.

Akebono ceramics are another fave of mine.

noahfleming · **Posted:** Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:03 am

I've run the StopTech Street Performance" pads on a couple cars for several years and are very happy with them. PFCs are great, but I've never used anything but the track pads.

I dislike Hawk HP Plus and HPS personally, I've had both. The HP Plus sucks as a track pad and also a street pad, but is decent for autocross. They don't last long and dust a log, also making lots of noise. The HPS doesn't stop as well as the StopTech IMO so I had them replaced and noticed an improvement after installing the StopTechs.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:18 am

noahfleming wrote:

The HP Plus sucks as a track pad and also a street pad, but is decent for autocross. They don't last long and dust a lot, also making lots of noise.

It depends on the car IMO. We run HP Plus pas on our Lemons Prelude and they work just fine, especially on a non ABS equipped car running street tires.

As far as dust as noise, I think you are talking about them in regards to a street pad setting right? In a track setting, we have a saying about noise and brake dust. It goes something like "Do want a quiet pad with no dust, or do you want to stop?".

noahfleming · **Posted:** Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:24 am

I think we're talking autocross/street since this is the autocross sub forum. None of that pads we've mentioned are good for Track IMO.

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:55 am

Dustin -

Did you try the DS2500's on your Miata? If not then they may actually be viable if available for the car. Sam Strano likes (and sells) them for various street autocross cars and I put them on my FF this year after running HPS's for many years. No dust and little or no squeal that I can tell. Not rotor aggressive that I can tell (rotors have the same polished look I'm used to). Work cold but not sensitive to lock up like a set of HP Pluses I tried many years ago. The DS2500's are track capable on FF's in Australia (they love them) but obviously that is a whole lot different than on a Mini! Here is a link to specs: http://www.essexparts.com/shop/brake-pads/fcp4080h.html and here is a link to what Sam Strano says about them: http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetails. ... ModelID=37 Sam sells at good prices so if one of the local preferred vendors cannot get them Sam might be a good source if they exist.

The Akebono ceramics are what Ford used on our 97 and 01 Mustangs and they are GREAT for street use but I have no autocross or track experience. I don't know what is on my 2012 Mustang but they felt fine in an EVO school last Fall.

Andrew Jonell · **Joined:** Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:43 pm **Posts:** 1350

Dustin used the Ferodo's on his Miata.

RickyBeam · **Posted:** Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:20 pm

Emmie Fisher wrote:

Anyone have experience with EBC Redstuff pads

I ran EBC Reds on the bug. They're great high friction street pads, and would likely survive AX use. However, they will not stand up to track use. (repeated, heavy braking, i.e. bringing a 3000lb car from 130 to 50 in 300ft every 2min)

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brake pads -- again

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