Turning a beater into an autocross car

JamesMilko · **Posted:** Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:17 pm

JamesShort wrote:

Plus if you blow an engine, James Milko will let you park it nd do an engine swap in his garage

.

This is true, with a competent but not Miata knowledgeable 2nd wrench I can pull a motor/trans in 1:15. I'd imagine I could put one back in in a little bit more time. Parts are dirt cheap, the desirable motor is ~1k, the undesirable ones are $2-300 out of Kias.

Budget is also something you should consider when choosing a platform. I want to say I'm somewhere around $9k-$10k deep into my Miata, not counting 'repairs'. I'm likely about 75%-80% of a proper nationals CSP car and about 20% of the money. On some less developed platforms getting a car to where mine is could cost significantly more.

My car, while currently a dedicated AX/Track car, would have a tag and insurance if It was 2 years older. The only thing keeping a plate off it and me street driving it occasionally is OBD-II.

I also agree with Steve, you'll get the itch to at least try a HPDE. If it's a Miata/other convertible that means make sure you can fit under the bar. My height while sitting w/o a helmet on is 33". Around 35" I'd expect you'd start to have difficulty getting a seat combo in a Miata that lets you clear the rollbar and by 36" you'll be making significant amounts of effort to do it. (Cutting the humps off the floorpan & mounting an aluminum seat right to the floor.

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:44 pm

Les Davis wrote:

Another advantage of second gen DSMs, crank walk is less likely.

Age must be deteriorating you memory, 2nd gens crankwalk with the 7 bolt mains. 1st gens with the 6 bolt mains do not.

A 93 or 94 1st gen with a 6bolt crank and 4 bolt rear end is the holy grail of reliability in the DSM world.

Post up the one you are looking at

Jason Mauldin · **Posted:** Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:41 pm

Les Davis wrote:

10+ years ago there were a few of us heavily into autocrossing DSMs regularly I being one of them and I was at one time owner and later driver of the rallycross DSM you refer I believe. For autocross, I would suggest trying to find a second gen DSM, they made big suspension/handling improvements with the second gen cars and the stock turbo is better suited to autocross power delivery, you also don't have to live with the horrible motorized seat belts in a second gen and they are better looking IMO. First gen cars are certainly acceptable especially if your running in SP/SM where you can fix some of the shortcomings, but a second gen DSM is a better starting point for an autocross car. In general though, DSMs are a bit clunky and numb, certainly capable cars in AWD form with big sticky tires.

LIsten to this. Except, I wouldn't really consider the 1G cars acceptable, when the 2G cars were sooooo much better, in almost every way.

Jason Mauldin · **Posted:** Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:43 pm

Ryan Holton wrote:

Les Davis wrote:

Another advantage of second gen DSMs, crank walk is less likely.

Age must be deteriorating you memory, 2nd gens crankwalk with the 7 bolt mains. 1st gens with the 6 bolt mains do not.

A 93 or 94 1st gen with a 6bolt crank and 4 bolt rear end is the holy grail of reliability in the DSM world.

Post up the one you are looking at

Yeah, Les I think you got this part backwards.

But really? Is crankwalk still an issue now? They should have that resolved by now.

Bill Aycock · **Joined:** Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:55 pm **Posts:** 117

Ryan Holton wrote:

Post up the one you are looking at

http://swv.craigslist.org/cto/3873162252.html

Here she is. I definitely have a thing for this car, and that is what is attracting me to the proposition of a dedicated autocross car. i dont mean any disrespect to the Miata owners here, but owning one of those just doesnt hold any appeal to me.

Frankly, this was all a pipe dream, until I saw the price tag. There are a fair amount of these cars floating around, but as someone pointed out, most to all have been modded and most owners want much, much more money (likely to break even on what they have put in). That the price on this one is so low gives me hope that its relatively stock.

I have emailed the seller for more pics and information, and given that the car was just posted this week, hopefully it's still available. I do think that unmolested versions of these cars are becoming harder to find, and I'm fully prepared to make the purchase and sit on it until I can work on it in earnest.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:09 pm

Someone with a miata or s2000 will likely offer you a codrive. Don't hate till you try it because I was the same way. A stock na miata will make a golf r or dsm feel like a tow truck.

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:25 am

JamesShort wrote:

Someone with a miata or s2000 will likely offer you a codrive. Don't hate till you try it because I was the same way. A stock na miata will make a golf r or dsm feel like a tow truck.

As a somewhat an expert on DSM's and Miata's (having owned and extensively autocrossed both) Yes, the Miata is better in the turns but the DSM is far from a tow truck.

The DSM Bill posted might be decent for $500 but don't buy the 40k mile JDM motor hype. Broken timing belts are common because the timing belt is a real bitch to change in the car. That car being a 92, is definitely a 6 bolt motor and possibly a 4 bolt rear end.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:48 am

Ask Art, and Cash about DSM's in ESP. :mrgreen:

At the time Ryan and I were running, that car was a beast. Even at stock boost levels, the 255 Victoracers (wide at that time) on 17"x9" Cobra-R wheels were still not enough tire for the power it had. The launch is where we had a huge advantage, especially at a site with a lot of grit like Sanford.

I remember one guy who showed up at the 24Hr. NCAC event at Kinight's stadium who corded his brand new set of Hoosiers trying to beat us...didn't happen.

Damn I miss that car!

JamesShort · **Posted:** Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:43 am

Ryan Holton wrote:

Yes, the Miata is better in the turns but the DSM is far from a tow truck.

It's all relative

. My TSI was much pushier in stock trim than my Civic SI though I assume you had suspension and sway bars on yours?

Les Davis · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:04 pm **Posts:** 2059

Jason Mauldin wrote:

Ryan Holton wrote:

Les Davis wrote:

Another advantage of second gen DSMs, crank walk is less likely.

Age must be deteriorating you memory, 2nd gens crankwalk with the 7 bolt mains. 1st gens with the 6 bolt mains do not.

A 93 or 94 1st gen with a 6bolt crank and 4 bolt rear end is the holy grail of reliability in the DSM world.

Post up the one you are looking at

Yeah, Les I think you got this part backwards.

But really? Is crankwalk still an issue now? They should have that resolved by now.

Yeah, maybe so, I am old now and its been a REALLY long time since I've thought about DSMs. Am I at least correct in my opinion that crankwalk was an over hyped problem that only affected a small percentage of owners?

Les Davis · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:04 pm **Posts:** 2059

Ryan Holton wrote:

JamesShort wrote:

Someone with a miata or s2000 will likely offer you a codrive. Don't hate till you try it because I was the same way. A stock na miata will make a golf r or dsm feel like a tow truck.

As a somewhat an expert on DSM's and Miata's (having owned and extensively autocrossed both) Yes, the Miata is better in the turns but the DSM is far from a tow truck.

Truth.

Bill, might change his tune with a drive in a Miata it certainly changed my opinion, but a stock car didn't do it, it was when I ran one on coilovers, that's when I was hooked. Regardless, its good to have something you've always wanted and can be passionate about even if it isn't the perfect choice and you can certainly do a whole lot worse than an AWD DSM for autocross.

JamesMilko · **Posted:** Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:24 am

If you have an inseam around 30-32" and height around 5'6" you're more than welcome to co-drive my car. The seat doesn't adjust so you have to be roughly my size. Also, no guarantees that the car will stay running for all your runs.

JohnByers · **Posted:** Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:56 am

Les Davis wrote:

Am I at least correct in my opinion that crankwalk was an over hyped problem that only affected a small percentage of owners?

<--raises hand. Happened to me :evil:

Andrew Jonell · **Joined:** Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:43 pm **Posts:** 1350

JamesMilko wrote:

If you have an inseam around 30-32" and height around 5'6" you're more than welcome to co-drive my car. The seat doesn't adjust so you have to be roughly my size. Also, no guarantees that the car will stay running for all your runs.

Same, but 5'8" in height.

RobLupella · **Posted:** Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:52 pm

JamesMilko wrote:

If you have an inseam around 30-32" and height around 5'6" you're more than welcome to co-drive my car. The seat doesn't adjust so you have to be roughly my size. Also, no guarantees that the car will stay running for all your runs.

Truth on both the seat adjustment and running through all the runs. (Ask me how I know :lol:

) On the other hand, the car is definitely fast especially compared to my stock 1.6NA and handles too.

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