⚠ Forum Archived — The THSCC forums were discontinued (last post: 2024-05-18). This read-only archive preserves club history. Visit thscc.com →  |  Search this archive with Google: site:forums.thscc.com your search terms

THSCC Forums

Tarheel Sports Car Club Forums
It is currently Tue Apr 07, 2026 10:07 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 69 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Novice School Instructor - March 2, 2013
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:04 am 
Offline
Republican
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:25 pm
Posts: 4356
Location: MWI/MUI Kubota FTW
Huh, really? Whoodah thunk one of my ideas would work? Or better yet whoodah thunk my idea to "run it like a business" would have worked? :mrgreen:


In all seriousness now, I'm removing my jester's cap here, I am glad to see the Club taking a vested interest in the development of noobs. As with anything the experience has to be enjoyable and the atmosphere welcoming for people to return.

Now, you Bullies have a good season.................... ciao bella ........... 8)

_________________
BenchWarmer Motorsports

another one of those damn LeMons heads

just another Chump :)

we are an Autocross Club Dammit............


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Novice School Instructor - March 2, 2013
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:09 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:41 pm
Posts: 3172
Location: Seattle, WA
We ran it as methodically as we planned: 2:1 student to instructor ratio. 4 non-waitlisted students dropped out, 4 instructors were added. On Thursday morning we had 23 instructors and I let in 47 students (1 exception).

_________________
2011/2012 Autox VP
2013/2014.5 President
2013 Top Gun

2015 Fit

22R-EC => 4G63 => D16Y7 + D16Y8 => EJ255 + K24Z2 => K20Z3 + K24Z2 => K24Z2 + M54 => L15B


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Novice School Instructor - March 2, 2013
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:05 am 
Offline
Tire Nerd
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:40 pm
Posts: 1818
Location: Greenville, SC
My experience as an instructor was great. My students were ready to learn, and I worked with them from the start on teaching them how to evaluate themselves. I actually went with the flow and took them into many aspects from course reading (critical cone selections), mental ques (more on that in a moment) on course, to steering wheel control, to back side slaloms, to a bunch of stuff, and they just sucked it all in. I was really happy with their progress and left them with a plan to mentally review the day later that night, eyes closed, reliving all the information and all the driving progress, etc -- tried to impress upon them that that nighttime review was easily 50% of school and of critical importance if they want to leap forward to learn more at the next autocross.

Whoever setup those two sets of pointer cones on the return part of the main course was a genius. The first pointer was worthless of course and should be easily ignored from one's vision in order to concentrate on the important 2nd one. However, coming into the prior element and looking ahead, that first one just stood out like it was lighted from above. :D That one feature was a huge learning tool to my guys as even I was getting visually sucked into it as we ran the course. So I told them when you have a problem, you have to "feature it." Hence a bit of mental rehearsal of now allowing that 1st pointer sucking your attention to remind you to do three things: (1) instantly jump to the 2nd pointer, (2) trigger your "manage entry speed programming for 2nd pointer cone" and then visualize back-siding it with the inside left rear just perfectly, and (3) use it as a trigger to remind you of the rest of the course. I told them to love course elements like those since you can now mentally allow them to become your biggest asset on course. All that worked like charm -- it is such a great feeling when you have students who just suck in your ideas/thoughts/BS and then go out and do it well on course.

One comment on the slalom course on the lower part of the runway -- I think if we run that setup in the future, we should figure out a way to have the students do two laps at once. It would be fine to end the last slalom and then just pull slowly up to the start again imo. The repetitive learning of two laps would go a long way as it was such a short course, the "time on course at a time" was too little versus the downtime.

I really tried to get my students thinking only about their inside rears on the slaloms. We walked it, talked about it, visualized it, etc. After one of the runs with one student where he clipped a cone, I asked him to critique his run. He replied well I hit a cone, so I guess that's not too good. My reply was, "What? That was AWESOME!", and then went on to explain he had hit a slalom cone with his BACK tire, just barely. To be a novice autocrosser and be running slaloms, doing a nice job and then just clipping a cone with a BACK tire was about the best thing you could ask for imo.

To Rob, Steve and everyone who organized the day -- good job! I think it went superbly well, and the instruction plus all the seat time for the students was exceptional.

I agree with Steve about Rob -- his tireless commitment to novices is amazing and sets an outstanding example for others out into the future. :)

_________________
Current stable:
2019 BMW M2 Competition slicktop 6MT
2011 BMW M3 sedan slicktop 6MT
2007 BMW 328i wagon (slushbox for now)
1975 CanAm 125MX2


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Novice School Instructor - March 2, 2013
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:14 pm
Posts: 2028
Location: Raleigh, NC
well-stated, Chuck.

I need seat time with you, BTW. I like your approach to instructing....

I also found it very useful to instruct on the idea of "good" misses. Backsiding a cone and hitting it with inside rear is the right way to miss a slalom (like missing a breaking putt on the high side), and all they need to do is dial in the slalom speed and that "miss" becomes a perfect entry. Great case in point on visualizing the course: I rode with a novice on Sunday in a gorgeous E46M3 and he was all over the place, completely lost on course after two runs. After we were done I said "All I want you to do is memorize the course (he had a perfect view of it from grid) and then recite it to me when I come back." He did it, and we mentally drove the course while waiting in line. That run was a clean 54 after two 60+ sec runs.

The other prominent feature in novices (and some not-so-novices) is a lot of negative imagery. "I can't go faster through that element" or "Don't hit that cone" or "my car isn't set up right" were pretty common phrases I heard. Getting over that negativity is crucial in any sport, and I think it's pretty important in autocross as well. Success is founded on having the confidence and bravery to take charge of the course and drive 110%, and only a positive mental state can open that up. It's amazing what an encouraging phrase did to turn it around for the novices, even as little as saying "I know you can get a 37" when they've been running 39s all day, or as you pointed out, turning a hit cone into a "good" mistake.

(another example I am claiming credit for: Chris Vasques in RT had been languishing in the 54-55sec range. Before his fourth run I cheerfully chastised him about not being confident enough to drive WOT through the uphill slalom and wallom, and told him that I knew he could make that work and have a great run. His fourth run result: a 51.8, backed up by a 52.4. Positive imagery works.)

We have a follow-up novice school poll going out soon, and hopefully we will get some feedback for our efforts.

_________________
Steve Carter
1972 Datsun 240Z-- resto pics at http://picasaweb.google.com/srcartermd
2007 GPW Honda S2000-- STR 86


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Novice School Instructor - March 2, 2013
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:53 am 
Offline
proud papa!!1!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 6:44 pm
Posts: 2842
Location: Durham
My student wanted to know why we don't run novice school's once a month.

I suggested he ought to volunteer with the club :) (though finishing high school is also a priority for him)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Novice School Instructor - March 2, 2013
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:04 pm 
Offline
My stiffness is only an illusion
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:49 pm
Posts: 4658
Location: on line looking at car ads
Scott Johnson wrote:
My student wanted to know why we don't run novice school's once a month.

I suggested he ought to volunteer with the club :) (though finishing high school is also a priority for him)


I think that brings up a very good point. My student in the boss 302 had purchased the car in April last year and we had already hosted the novice school, so he decided not to come out and drive. Dan missed a year of driving. I do suggest at least a fall novice school.

_________________
Rodney

'08 Bullitt mustang, CAM 7
Autox VP '09-'10, President '11-'12, interim President 2nd half of ‘14
proud recipient of the Bowie Grey service award '12
Now just a guy driving a mustang....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Novice School Instructor - March 2, 2013
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:43 pm
Posts: 1350
Steven Carter wrote:
It's amazing what an encouraging phrase did to turn it around for the novices, even as little as saying "I know you can get a 37" when they've been running 39s all day, or as you pointed out, turning a hit cone into a "good" mistake.


I have to disagree; I don't think that this is good advice. I told Chip last year at the first event my smokin' times in the 2, and then he beat me in his Leaf. :(

But real talk: It's pretty staggering what a few good ride-alongs can do for a novice; however, they need to understand what's going on to make good use of it. A prime example is wiggling through a slalom versus trying to make 90 degree turns out of each cone; telling novices what you're doing with the wheel definitely helps.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Novice School Instructor - March 2, 2013
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:02 am
Posts: 299
I learned a lot and plan to do it again. I think the club could easily charge more for it too. I heard several people say things about how they couldn't believe how inexpensive it was for the amount of seat time and instruction they got. Another novice school before points 7 or 8 would be great.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Novice School Instructor - March 2, 2013
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:06 pm 
Offline
I err on the side of being stupid
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 10:15 pm
Posts: 4743
Location: Greenville, NC
Chuck Branscomb wrote:
Whoever setup those two sets of pointer cones on the return part of the main course was a genius. The first pointer was worthless of course and should be easily ignored from one's vision in order to concentrate on the important 2nd one. However, coming into the prior element and looking ahead, that first one just stood out like it was lighted from above. :D That one feature was a huge learning tool to my guys as even I was getting visually sucked into it as we ran the course. So I told them when you have a problem, you have to "feature it." Hence a bit of mental rehearsal of now allowing that 1st pointer sucking your attention to remind you to do three things: (1) instantly jump to the 2nd pointer, (2) trigger your "manage entry speed programming for 2nd pointer cone" and then visualize back-siding it with the inside left rear just perfectly, and (3) use it as a trigger to remind you of the rest of the course. I told them to love course elements like those since you can now mentally allow them to become your biggest asset on course. All that worked like charm -- it is such a great feeling when you have students who just suck in your ideas/thoughts/BS and then go out and do it well on course.


I saw that on Sunday, identified it as a problem and my eyes caught the sucker cone on every single run :oops: I have always struggled with two cones that you pass on the same side of, I want to try to slalom them. I guess I should have showed up on Saturday :stick: :stick: :stick: :stick:

_________________
02 Focus SVT
STF 9


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 69 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group