Street Tire Class 2013

shawnwhipple · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 6:28 pm **Posts:** 603

RobLupella wrote:

shawnwhipple wrote:

I just had a thought. I'm thankful for TIR class. If it wasn't for TIR class what would we discuss in the off season??

The fact that PAX sucks

Well played Sir :sing:

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:26 am

Steven Carter wrote:

I'll lay down a small wager that RS3 will have a compliant TW rating next year.

Since the SEB decided to stay with 140 and the RS3 is already 140 that looks like a sure win if you can find any takers . . . :lol:

JohnByers · **Posted:** Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:00 am

I cant decide what the best bet for the RX8 will be for RTR next year. The Star Specs (what my gut reaction is to choose) or the RS3's. I will still be changing tires fwiw as this choice will be autox only tires.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:18 am

Drum Roll please:

In 2013, if you select the category "Road Tire" (note the change and note that the registration page will make you select your category first), you will have a drop down for class that is ALL SCCA classes with RT prepended to it. These are going to be independent classes that are modified with a 2% PAX reduction relative to the base class.

If you select any other category: Open, X, NOV, OF, LAD there will not be an option to choose an RT* class in the class drop down.

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:50 pm

JamesShort wrote:

Drum Roll please:

In 2013, if you select the category "Road Tire" (note the change and note that the registration page will make you select your category first), you will have a drop down for class that is ALL SCCA classes with RT prepended to it. These are going to be independent classes that are modified with a 2% PAX reduction relative to the base class.

If you select any other category: Open, X, NOV, OF, LAD there will not be an option to choose an RT* class in the class drop down.

Wait...You mean all the RT-eligible classes (Stock plus the THSCC-added *SP, *P classes), right? If not, the way you phrased makes it sound like someone could select RTSTF which is not an SCCA- legal class

Zach Hill · **Posted:** Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:58 pm

Steven Carter wrote:

Wait...You mean all the RT-eligible classes (Stock plus the THSCC-added *SP, *P classes), right? If not, the way you phrased makes it sound like someone could select RTSTF which is not an SCCA- legal class

To clarify:

TIR category will be renamed to RT
All classes except ST* will be duplicated to add their respective RT* variant class which will carry a 2% pax advantage
Participants in RT category must choose an RT* class
RT* classes will only be allowed in RT category

Basically we're not changing anything except renaming TIR class to RT and giving those competitors a 2% pax advantage. We decided this was the best route to go since it has the least potential to piss people off. ;-)

JamesShort · **Posted:** Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:02 pm

Derp, I should have just deployed the code I wrote (picture is worth a 10e3 words). Yes ST* will not be in the dynamic drop down for RT* classes.

Arthur McDonald · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:54 am **Posts:** 2052

I guess I'm easily confused. Are we only going to have a single "Road Tire" class where the PAX is used to normalize times between different cars -- like our old TIR class? Or will we actually have an evil "Road Tire" twin class class to go along each non-ST class? I hope the answer is the former, since the latter would only aggravate the class dilution problem.

My other question is what should I do with the new TIR magnetics that I just ordered?

Zach Hill wrote:

Steven Carter wrote:

Wait...You mean all the RT-eligible classes (Stock plus the THSCC-added *SP, *P classes), right? If not, the way you phrased makes it sound like someone could select RTSTF which is not an SCCA- legal class

To clarify:

TIR category will be renamed to RT
All classes except ST* will be duplicated to add their respective RT* variant class which will carry a 2% pax advantage
Participants in RT category must choose an RT* class
RT* classes will only be allowed in RT category

Basically we're not changing anything except renaming TIR class to RT and giving those competitors a 2% pax advantage. We decided this was the best route to go since it has the least potential to piss people off. ;-)

Zach Hill · **Posted:** Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:49 pm

Arthur McDonald wrote:

I guess I'm easily confused. Are we only going to have a single "Road Tire" class where the PAX is used to normalize times between different cars -- like our old TIR class? Or will we actually have an evil "Road Tire" twin class class to go along each non-ST class? I hope the answer is the former, since the latter would only aggravate the class dilution problem.

Sorry to confuse... No, RT will be just like our old and classic TIR category. The complications come out of giving the 2% pax adjustment (thus the duplicate RT* classes). We are renaming it because... hmmm. Well, it was suggested that we rename it, and I guess so it's more in line with SCCA? Even though it's not like the SCCA RT class. Hmm. :stick:

Arthur McDonald wrote:

My other question is what should I do with the new TIR magnetics that I just ordered?

Easy! Move the 'R' to the front and drop the 'I'!

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:08 pm

I don't know if this is right, but here's how I'm looking at it...essentially nothing changes within the RT category, since all RT* entrants get a ~2% adjustment. BUT, in the final PAX results of all drivers you will see a good bit more of the RT competitors near the top as they will have a 2% adjustment against other classes.

And hold on....the Devil just bought a ski jacket----Art is running TIR? :shock:

Zach Hill · **Posted:** Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:09 pm

Steven Carter wrote:

I don't know if this is right, but here's how I'm looking at it...essentially nothing changes within the RT category, since all RT* entrants get a ~2% adjustment. BUT, in the final PAX results of all drivers you will see a good bit more of the RT competitors near the top as they will have a 2% adjustment against other classes.

Yep!

This has always been a disadvantage of running TIR class; you get screwed on the final pax results because your index is factoring in race rubber. Hopefully, this new system will undo that and make things "even." Even though pax sucks.

Matt McGrain · **Posted:** Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:38 pm

Zach Hill wrote:

Sorry to confuse... No, RT will be just like our old and classic TIR category. The complications come out of giving the 2% pax adjustment (thus the duplicate RT* classes).

You guys are geniuses. Seems simply enough and makes for a more level playing field regarding PAX for those that could, but don't want to run race rubber.

People will be confused for a bit but when the smoke clears after an event or two, it's only going to increase attendance IMO as folks running streets in any class other than ST classes will get the PAX 'discount'. I like it. :thumbsup:

Cliffs Notes:

-TIR renamed RT
-RT consists of all cars on street tires (didn't the RS3's get okayed by the SCCA recently too?) that would normally fall into any class except ST*
-Enjoy 2% reduction, not .02%

-Place higher than you did last season

shawnwhipple · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 6:28 pm **Posts:** 603

I think this was a good way to handle this for 2013 (assuming we survive this Friday) I'm think we'll see an even bigger RT/TIR class for next year. Of course this just makes my Street vs. R-comps debate even harder. :twisted:

Arthur McDonald · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:54 am **Posts:** 2052

Steven Carter wrote:

And hold on....the Devil just bought a ski jacket----Art is running TIR? :shock:

It's been called RT for almost 18 hours now, Steve, get with the program!

Frankly, I don't know, but it is worth looking into. I've proven that 3 year old 235-55/17 M&S "Road Tires" make my car, when driven like you would drive on A6s, into an absolute tail-wagging idiot. If what everybody is saying about the top road tires being close to the grip of R-comps is true, then I need to figure out how which brand to get and which sizes will work on an 18x8.5 rim.

JohnByers · **Posted:** Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:12 pm

Arthur McDonald wrote:

If what everybody is saying about the top road tires being close to the grip of R-comps is true, then I need to figure out how which brand to get and which sizes will work on an 18x8.5 rim.

My rims are a .5" narrower than yours. I am personally going with StarSpec 245/40/18 on the RX8. I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to have a square setup like you had with the slicks Art...

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