results from 10/21/2012...

Zach Hill · **Posted:** Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:09 pm

BriceJohnson wrote:

We could always do one of those painful, awful, miserable starts like day 2 of NCAC to avoid that I suppose.

That doesn't really help the problem. If their issue is the tire marks which are left as a result of wheelspin at the launch, some people are still gonna launch hard even if they have to slow down and make a tight turn before breaking the start beam (i.e. no competitive advantage for a hard start). People will launch hard anyway (except Markus), as evidenced at NCAC day 2.

We can certainly accommodate the site owners by having a start in a certain place, but if we're renting a lot from someone they need to be okay with leaving some tire marks somewhere.

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:39 pm

What SCCA does for Nationals and some tours where there is LOTS of space for the course is a moderately close and "sharp" corner right after the launch but well before the lights so that burnouts are either not possible due to the turn/corner immediately after the launch area or not necessary. This year at Lincoln there was a relatively long distance after the "launch corner" before the lights. People with sticky tires and/or on/off switch clutches (like me) may still want/need to get some tire spin but the location of tire marks might be relatively easy to control.

FYI the Nationals start area corners were NOT painful. They simply were not "burnout" friendly like many other events and certainly not like Pro Solos.

Much harder to do with small lots.

FYI even the launch Sunday was only "partial" burnout for me due to the fact that I needed the tires hooked up for the finger on the left and the following right turn.

Zach Hill · **Posted:** Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:45 pm

DickRasmussen wrote:

[...]burnouts are either not possible due to the turn/corner immediately after the launch area or not necessary.

The key here is "possible" vs. "necessary." Believe it or not, some drivers at our events do not always correctly ascertain whether a hard launch is necessary. Plus, maybe people just want to do a burnout.

I'm certainly not arguing against your point. I understand and agree with it. I'm just saying that there's really no effective way to eliminate burnouts at our events, and that the site owners should be okay with that.

Jeremy Ellison · **Joined:** Fri May 13, 2011 5:01 pm **Posts:** 186

Matt McGrain wrote:

Les Davis wrote:

Judi told me that y'all (ECs & course designers) had to clean up tons of metal. Not cool when we're buying $250+ tires. :shock:

We probably could've paid the site rental with all the scrap we picked up :lol:

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:27 pm

Zach Hill wrote:

I'm just saying that there's really no effective way to eliminate burnouts at our events, and that the site owners should be okay with that.

I agree completely. The point I didn't make was that it MIGHT be possible to minimize the length of the burnout tire marks with a turn immediately after the launch while still maintaining a fun start area. Hard enough to write, let alone do however.

FYI it is no problem for me to do a no burnout launch. My clutch won't burnout or even be "at risk". Biggest issue I have when I don't burnout is explaining why not to Kelly. :lol:

Les Davis · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:04 pm **Posts:** 2059

JohnByers wrote:

BriceJohnson wrote:

We could always do one of those painful, awful, miserable starts like day 2 of NCAC to avoid that I suppose.

Don't hate cause you couldn't get it perfectly! Lots of starts at higher levels were like that last year, I like to think of it as ways to practice and get better at any of the AX scenarios that could be thrown my way

Sorry, having a "race" in which the start requires one to pedal the throttle throughout particularly when you have 18 sq miles of pavement kinda goes against the whole philosophy of a "race". Besides, people who choose to "race" wimpy cars deserve be punished somewhere/somehow.

jeremy gast · **Posted:** Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:14 pm

Les Davis wrote:

JohnByers wrote:

BriceJohnson wrote:

Sorry, having a "race" in which the start requires one to pedal the throttle throughout particularly when you have 18 sq miles of pavement kinda goes against the whole philosophy of a "race". Besides, people who choose to "race" wimpy cars deserve be punished somewhere/somehow.

Remember this is coming from a guy that would rather drive my "wimpy" car then his 6 figure corvette.

Matt McGrain · **Posted:** Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:37 pm

Hell, if everyone drove AP2 S2000's there wouldn't be any launch marks.

Damn clutch delay valve! :soap:

Personally, I don't mind 90* technical starts versus drag race starts but I'm cool with whatever, as usual :lol:

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:55 pm

It sounds like it wasn't just the start area they were concerned about. This isn't an uncommon issue these days. I've run a number of autocrosses down in the Atlanta area with the BMWCCA Peachtree chapter, and they had a great site for years at Lake Lanier Islands waterpark lot (nice elevation change in the middle of the lot too). In early 2011 the lot was repaved, and it took one autocross with all the tire marks across the new, clean white lines for them to lose the lot for good.

Online guides suggest about $4/space for repainting lot lines...just a thought to consider if we have to negotiate with a lot owner about "damage" from tire marks on lot lines (i.e. we might be able to negotiate to pay for a portion of repainting every couple of years -- something like that).

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:58 pm

Chuck Branscomb wrote:

Online guides suggest about $4/space for repainting lot lines...just a thought to consider if we have to negotiate with a lot owner about "damage" from tire marks on lot lines (i.e. we might be able to negotiate to pay for a portion of repainting every couple of years -- something like that).

Yeah, that's WAYYYY too cheap unless you are just buying the paint and putting it down with a roller yourself. Depending upon the quantity, figure $0.30 to $0.60 per LF

JamesShort · **Posted:** Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:06 pm

Given the shit quality of that lot and the 10-15lbs of nails, rivets, screws, sawzall blades, fender washers, zip ties, glass, curtain hooks, cotter pins we picked up on setup day, I'd say we have a good case if they complain about the dull and overlapping parking spot lines on that lot.

In the lot we ran in July, we can easily start on a different section of the asphalt to avoid launching on lines and even sweep afterwards.

Les Davis · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:04 pm **Posts:** 2059

jeremy gast wrote:

Remember this is coming from a guy that would rather drive my "wimpy" car then his 6 figure corvette.

How do you know I was even referring to your car as wimpy, its certainly not the wimpiest. Oh, and I never said I'd rather drive it, I just said that it would be my choice as the faster car on at least 75% of autocross courses, there is a difference.

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

No reason to read into what I have said so far. I will figure out exactly what they mean and we will go from there. The general consensus seems to be: west lot is ok, but requires frequent sweeping and tire wear is a bummer. East lot sucks if it rains, and is a bit more delicate with site owners. We will plan accordingly. Right now, I would bet on having one event in each lot next year, but stay tuned.

Jeremy Ellison · **Joined:** Fri May 13, 2011 5:01 pm **Posts:** 186

BriceJohnson wrote:

East lot sucks if it rains

I bet the west lot sucks in the rain too. I'd rather have less light poles and a slick, off camber, surface than the reverse in a event of a downpour. Just my 2c.

Jordan Normark · **Posted:** Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:02 pm

JamesShort wrote:

I foresee us using both lots. For the lot this weekend, we can have mandatory sweep breaks every 30 minutes or so in the high grit areas. Or maybe someone with a back back leaf blower can let us borrow it for course setup day

.

I have a big Stihl commercial back pack blower I use for my rental property. I kept thinking to myself how useful it would have been Sunday. I offered it for L-burg earlier this year and the club is welcome to use it for autocross events the day before, or I could show up early the day of next time.

Just about every autocross course I walk I find a metal object or two. One or two of these may be a good investment and it would not take up too much space if hung up in the trailer.

http://www.harborfreight.com/30-inch-ma ... 93245.html

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