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 Post subject: Re: Increase novice retention
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:16 pm 
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Location: Durham, NC
The main reason I still AX is because I know my car control still needs a lot of work. I'm sure AX has avoided at least 3-4 4 offs in the dozen HPDE and two Chump races I've done. I'd much rather overdrive the car and get in over my head when I'm in a fairly safe parking lot/airport with only cones to hit then go off sideways at VIR in T3.

I've never had an instructor that has referred to my autocross experience in a negative light and I know they appreciate the fact that my hands/feet know what to do (and what not to do) when the car steps out in a turn. I think the people who see AX as a "step up" to track always wanted to do track in at least some regard and saw AX as a way to get comfortable with driving the car at the limit/accelerating the development of their car control skills.

That said, the drivers meetings for both program rarely mention the others. It would likely be worth mentioning the car control practice of autocross in the track meetings and higher speed potential in the AX meetings. Possibly develop some kind of "Autocross for HPDE students" program within the autocross program to highlight the skill crossovers and encourage signups from the track program.

I'll help you out with a survey Rob.


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 Post subject: Re: Increase novice retention
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:17 pm 
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I'm apparently one of those weirdos that just hasn't gotten bored with autocross in 15 years of doing it. There are many people who think I'm nutz because I haven't done HPDE or LeMons yet and don't hesitate to let me know it. I still do autocross because I still enjoy it, I'm a competitive person and autocross scratches that competitive itch for me as I just don't think HPDE would. Autocross suits me because it is a short/intense burst that is a delicate balance of precision and aggression. I've kept it interesting by sampling a variety of cars and continuing to challenge myself with hardware. LeMons is a big draw for me as I think it would scratch my competitive itch and I will likely end up doing it at some point, I just haven't gotten around to it yet for many reasons. Mainly, I look at things this way, I'm never going to be a professional race driver and I'm not even 40, so what is the big rush to do every motorsport that is available to me right away, what then will I do when I'm 60? As long as I am having fun and playing with cars I feel are interesting/challenging I'm happy and autocross still does that for me, particularly with the banana beast. The main thing that has kept me from "moving on" to HPDE however is the potential expense of wadding a car up in a tire wall or hitting another expensive car on track and being expected to pay for it. I realize not everyone agrees but I'm of the mindset that one shouldn't take a car on track that one isn't prepared to walk away from, I also feel that I should have my own "insurance policy" I'm willing to put up to cover the potential of smacking into that expensive Porsche and I'm just not there yet financially. I also want to retire some day and don't want to spend all my expendable income on "having fun with cars", I spend enough as is. Some day I'll "move on" to more amateur motorsport money pits, but I'm still young and there is plenty of time for that. :D

As for retaining autcross attendance, many of the important things have already been mentioned, maintaining a social/friendly atmosphere is important and I think the newb survey is a good idea. I think one thing that is important for those running the events to keep in mind also is that it is a competition foremost, this is what separates it from HPDE. Maintaining the competitive atmosphere is important. Its important for competitors in competition to know there times immediately, this is why I bought the wireless timer display last year. We do a pretty good job of this, and the new results app from Carlton helps a whole bunch too. Thanks again Carlton! Even with these things, having an announcer at the event helps maintain the competitive atmosphere, particularly a lively one, the announcer isn't really for the driver but for the benefit of the spectators/competitors. Competitive type people also like to be recognized for their achievements, be this at the trophy ceremony, the monthly meeting, or the monthly newsletter, people like to hear their own name and see it in print however meaningless it is in the big scheme of things or how boring some people might think it is to hear it a the meeting. One other thing as well, the Heel of the Month is not only a recognition of those that help out with the club, but can also be used to recognize good driving achievement, this is something I think is forgotten some times.

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 Post subject: Re: Increase novice retention
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:22 pm 
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My point exactly Chuck. AutoX leads many to HPDE but this doesn't seem to be the case in reverse.

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BenchWarmer Motorsports

another one of those damn LeMons heads

just another Chump :)

we are an Autocross Club Dammit............


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 Post subject: Re: Increase novice retention
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:30 pm 
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No Les, you are a weirdo for so many other reasons. :lol: :twisted:

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BenchWarmer Motorsports

another one of those damn LeMons heads

just another Chump :)

we are an Autocross Club Dammit............


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 Post subject: Re: Increase novice retention
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:50 pm 
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Quite a bit of this can be chalked up to plain old time IMO. Afterall time is the one thing we can never get more of. You can make more money, buy more cars, but time is finite.

Most of us have a certain amount time we can spend with our friends, families, and hobbies. Often that requires a choice. I like to do HPDE's, Lemons/Chump races, as well as autocross, and rallycross. However since I dont have time to do all of these, I'm forced to choose and these days, racing is at the top. Fortunately my racing habit is supported by my three teammates both monetarily and time-wise. If this were not the case I would not have the time to maintain and finance a race car, albeit a "$500" one.

For those with families and small kids like Ryan, they must weigh their options of how much time and money they can spend on their "car hobby". Autocross fits that niche just about right, and there is nothing wrong with that. However if you have a little more to spend, and would like more actual wheel-time, HPDE might scratch that motorsports itch. If your wife and budget will allow the time and money to finance a real race car, that is what lots of people like to do these days. Someone named "Jay" has made virtual killing off providing an outlet to do just that.

When people have a finite amout of time and money most will have to make a choice. I see nothing wrong with any of the choices, and don't think one is necessarily "better" than the other, but again, it all depends on the amount of time you have to spend.

Edit: I can't even get my new shop wired for working on the damn race car!

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 Post subject: Re: Increase novice retention
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:45 pm 
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OK, but it is the new blood that we are more concerned with here I would think. With the exception of the time issue mentioned by VK what is it that causes Newbs to move on?

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BenchWarmer Motorsports

another one of those damn LeMons heads

just another Chump :)

we are an Autocross Club Dammit............


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 Post subject: Re: Increase novice retention
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:45 pm 
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These threads make it seem really pervasive.

Food for thought, noobs:

Myself
Jeremy Ellison
Zach Hill
Noah Fleming
Steve Carter
Jennifer Beddell
Maria Winslow
Ram Vennam
James Milko

We are all pretty involved (either officers/staff/officers-to-be/staff-to-be) with the club and I don't think we have all these terrible things to say about THSCC. So what are the fundamental differences between folks on this list and the 'millions' of novices that we piss off or scare or are mean to etc etc?

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 Post subject: Re: Increase novice retention
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:11 pm 
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JamesShort wrote:
These threads make it seem really pervasive.

Food for thought, noobs:

Myself
Jeremy Ellison
Zach Hill
Noah Fleming
Steve Carter
Jennifer Beddell
Maria Winslow
Ram Vennam
James Milko

We are all pretty involved (either officers/staff/officers-to-be/staff-to-be) with the club and I don't think we have all these terrible things to say about THSCC. So what are the fundamental differences between folks on this list and the 'millions' of novices that we piss off or scare or are mean to etc etc?



That attitude...............

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BenchWarmer Motorsports

another one of those damn LeMons heads

just another Chump :)

we are an Autocross Club Dammit............


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 Post subject: Re: Increase novice retention
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:14 pm 
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Location: Lost in Eastern N. Carolina
JamesShort wrote:
These threads make it seem really pervasive.

Food for thought, noobs:

Myself
Jeremy Ellison
Zach Hill
Noah Fleming
Steve Carter
Jennifer Beddell
Maria Winslow
Ram Vennam
James Milko

We are all pretty involved (either officers/staff/officers-to-be/staff-to-be) with the club and I don't think we have all these terrible things to say about THSCC. So what are the fundamental differences between folks on this list and the 'millions' of novices that we piss off or scare or are mean to etc etc?



All but 3 of you drive Honduhs?

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 Post subject: Re: Increase novice retention
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:19 pm 
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:thumbsup:
RobLupella wrote:
JamesShort wrote:
These threads make it seem really pervasive.

Food for thought, noobs:

Myself
Jeremy Ellison
Zach Hill
Noah Fleming
Steve Carter
Jennifer Beddell
Maria Winslow
Ram Vennam
James Milko

We are all pretty involved (either officers/staff/officers-to-be/staff-to-be) with the club and I don't think we have all these terrible things to say about THSCC. So what are the fundamental differences between folks on this list and the 'millions' of novices that we piss off or scare or are mean to etc etc?



All but 3 of you drive Honduhs?



I don't think the "problem" is us for the most part. We need to maybe work on our product line but I think we are reacting to some negative comments that really don't apply. I think there have been some good suggestions but as for someone who has been with the club for 12 years, as a whole we are much more welcoming than we were when I joined. I think we have beat this topic to a bloody pulp and have good information. James and I will run off and draft a survey and let the officers review it. Then we can decide how to distribute.

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1990 Faded Reddish CSP Lite Miata
2002 Electron Blue Corvette Z06
2005 Mazda 6 Wagon
2003 Nissan Pathfinder DTV (Dog Transport Vehicle)


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 Post subject: Re: Increase novice retention
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:38 pm 
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Location: Seattle, WA
RobLupella wrote:

I don't think the "problem" is us for the most part. We need to maybe work on our product line but I think we are reacting to some negative comments that really don't apply. I think there have been some good suggestions but as for someone who has been with the club for 12 years, as a whole we are much more welcoming than we were when I joined. I think we have beat this topic to a bloody pulp and have good information. James and I will run off and draft a survey and let the officers review it. Then we can decide how to distribute.

Cool, I can probably write a script that can go back through the last n years and pull email addresses from participants who were in NOV class. This unfortunately will not capture walkups, which are predominantly novices though :(.

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2015 Fit

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 Post subject: Re: Increase novice retention
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:41 pm 
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steve remchak wrote:


That attitude...............

My last sentence was sarcasm....I was pretending to be you.

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2013/2014.5 President
2013 Top Gun

2015 Fit

22R-EC => 4G63 => D16Y7 + D16Y8 => EJ255 + K24Z2 => K20Z3 + K24Z2 => K24Z2 + M54 => L15B


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 Post subject: Re: Increase novice retention
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:45 pm 
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Location: MWI/MUI Kubota FTW
JamesShort wrote:
steve remchak wrote:


That attitude...............

My last sentence was sarcasm....I was pretending to be you.


Well Grasshopper, study hard and maybe you too will one day possess the skillz............ :stick:

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BenchWarmer Motorsports

another one of those damn LeMons heads

just another Chump :)

we are an Autocross Club Dammit............


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 Post subject: Re: Increase novice retention
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:48 pm 
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Yellow arm bands purchased for Nov ID. Need to order a cheaper box, Staples is spendy, but at least we have a few for this event.

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 Post subject: Re: Increase novice retention
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:08 pm 
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I don't need no stinkin window!
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I don't think we do that bad a job with novices. I don't know the numbers but I'd guess only 10% to 20% of novices do more than 3 events. I think we should do all we can easily do to make them happy but the truth is most people are not going to like autocross enough to want to do it repeatably. Channeling a quote here, "People's reactions to autocross the first time they do it is very dramatic; they either love it or they hate it. If they love it, they will always love it. If they don't, they may learn to appreciate it, but it will never become part of their soul" Bonus points if you can name the movie I butchered the quote from.

If you don't love it you probably won't want to put up with the hurdles to doing it. There's high heat, cold rain, long distances to events, short seat time, high cost, time away from family, etc, etc, etc, there are a million reasons why you shouldn't autocross and they are all legit. They all contribute to novices and even regulars to dropping out.

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