I know you hate PAX, but...

JamesShort · **Posted:** Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:10 pm

Steven Carter wrote:

Ha! Don't know how to adjust shocks.......right. I am not buying that for a minute, Mr. Smarty McCreepybeard. :stick:

New tires FTW, though. My front tires were not happy (using my old 100 run tires from the WRX plus 60 runs this season) yesterday. I need to see you close the gap on Licursi at NCAC, so buy thembefore NCAC wouldja?

I called Lee to tell him how much we like the konis a few months ago and told him we were running 800/650 springs with the front rebound at 1.5 turns, front bump at 3 clicks (of 12) and the rear rebound at 0.5 turns and the rear bump at full soft.

He told me that based on my spring rates that we're running them way too soft. Granted, we keep coming to the conclusion that Jeremy's car is pushy and I think we are up to 0.75 turns of rear rebound and 3 clicks of rear bump so we're heading towards a more neutral car. Anyway, we want to try to make small incremental changes in setup so we can learn how the car reacts to a given variable. Lots of RS3 folks run 36/34 psi f/r pressures so we did as well, but we got down to a square 35 yesterday and that reduced the front push/skating, but that might be a formula for sealed asphalt though.

Cash Davidson · **Posted:** Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:58 pm

Steven Carter wrote:

I am not buying that for a minute, Mr. Smarty McCreepybeard. :stick:

Now that's just plain funny - I don't care who you are! :thumbsup:

JamesShort · **Posted:** Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:31 pm

Haha, yeah, that was pretty good

.

RobLupella · **Posted:** Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:09 pm

Steven Carter wrote:

Ha! Don't know how to adjust shocks.......right. I am not buying that for a minute, Mr. Smarty McCreepybeard. :stick:

New tires FTW, though. My front tires were not happy (using my old 100 run tires from the WRX plus 60 runs this season) yesterday. I need to see you close the gap on Licursi at NCAC, so buy thembefore NCAC wouldja?

We need a "Like" Button

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:30 pm

ya'll better be glad the PAX machine I just went and looked at was a rusty POS.

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:24 pm

'87 Prelude for STF?

RodneyWright · **Posted:** Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:36 pm

Ryan Holton wrote:

ya'll better be glad the PAX machine I just went and looked at was a rusty POS.

oh, do tell. What's on your radar now?

Les Davis · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:04 pm **Posts:** 2059

Gwen Baake wrote:

jeremy gast wrote:

ok PAX it sucks!!! ok got FTD yesterday because of PAX I was 29th in pax!!! Even if I was running my CSP pax instead of moving up the class to ssm then I still wouldnt have been in the top 20.

therefore Rodney

PAX SUX

Think of it this way. You could be driving a 1.6 liter with less than 100hp to the wheel and 114 lbs torque. Would it suck then? :lol:

I'm going with.......ah, no.
Great driving yesterday, and congratulations on FTD! Frank rules!

But aren't you driving that vehicle at least in some part because of PAX? I would say that if anything that supports the argument that PAX SUX, I'm with Jeremy.

If determining your overall finishing position requires the use of a calculator, that by definition SUX IMHO.

Arthur McDonald · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:54 am **Posts:** 2052

RobLupella wrote:

I was 8th fastest raw and 28th Pax. PAX SUX. I just ignore PAX as irrelevent

Hah! Hah! I was 18th fastest raw and 8th Pax. Not that it means anything, of course :woo:

Gwen Habenicht · **Posted:** Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:57 pm

Les Davis wrote:

Gwen Baake wrote:

jeremy gast wrote:

ok PAX it sucks!!! ok got FTD yesterday because of PAX I was 29th in pax!!! Even if I was running my CSP pax instead of moving up the class to ssm then I still wouldnt have been in the top 20.

therefore Rodney

PAX SUX

Think of it this way. You could be driving a 1.6 liter with less than 100hp to the wheel and 114 lbs torque. Would it suck then? :lol:

I'm going with.......ah, no.
Great driving yesterday, and congratulations on FTD! Frank rules!

But aren't you driving that vehicle at least in some part because of PAX? I would say that if anything that supports the argument that PAX SUX, I'm with Jeremy.

If determining your overall finishing position requires the use of a calculator, that by definition SUX IMHO.

Actually, I drive the Mini because that's what I started autocrossing and I liked it, so when I bought a new car I stuck with what I liked. I went to the ITR when I started driving with Grab and Go, and that was fine too. When I started driving I had no idea about pax.

My thought is that if you don't like PAX times, don't look at them. Stick with raw times. But, don't be pissed when you get raw timed by a 17 piece parts car Miata! :shock:

And, anytime you want to jump in Tiny and beat my or Feinberg's raw times, feel free. And what most don't realize, or understand is that we never show up with what even resembles decent tires. We are always on corded, trashed, flipped, or track cast offs. We're there for seat time and to work on something in particular. Just think, if we'd been on good stuff, add about 1.5 seconds to Feinberg's time and he'd have been competing for FTD in the little PAX SUX car.

Zach Hill · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:43 am

Steven Carter wrote:

Mr. Smarty McCreepybeard. :stick:

JamesShort wrote:

Anyway, we want to try to make small incremental changes in setup so we can learn how the car reacts to a given variable.

Negative. In my experience, making large changes makes the effect much more noticeable, and easier to determine if it helps or hurts. i.e. make the shocks full stiff or full soft, you'll notice the difference it makes. At least for me, after ~5 years autocrossing, I am just now starting to notice the effects of smallish changes in shock settings. Starting with drastic changes helped me learn how to set up the car.

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:49 am

Gwen Baake wrote:

And, anytime you want to jump in Tiny and beat my or Feinberg's raw times, feel free. And what most don't realize, or understand is that we never show up with what even resembles decent tires. We are always on corded, trashed, flipped, or track cast offs. We're there for seat time and to work on something in particular. Just think, if we'd been on good stuff, add about 1.5 seconds to Feinberg's time and he'd have been competing for FTD in the little PAX SUX car.

Hmmm, methinks a challenge is afoot...

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:43 am

RodneyWright wrote:

Ryan Holton wrote:

ya'll better be glad the PAX machine I just went and looked at was a rusty POS.

oh, do tell. What's on your radar now?

I wish it were an exciting sports car but alas it was a 10 year old econo hatch :sleep

JamesShort · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:33 am

Ryan Holton wrote:

RodneyWright wrote:

Ryan Holton wrote:

ya'll better be glad the PAX machine I just went and looked at was a rusty POS.

oh, do tell. What's on your radar now?

I wish it were an exciting sports car but alas it was a 10 year old econo hatch :sleep

RSX?

Matt McGrain · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:36 am

Gwen Baake wrote:

...we never show up with what even resembles decent tires. We are always on corded, trashed, flipped, or track cast offs. We're there for seat time and to work on something in particular. Just think, if we'd been on good stuff, add about 1.5 seconds to Feinberg's time and he'd have been competing for FTD in the little PAX SUX car.

I try not to think about a Mini destroying STR times because I know it's true if you guys were on stickers.

Same thing for the Lotus crew... I think Jennifer, Chris & Eric are on 100 run A6's. I can definitely say from experience, heat cycled Hoosiers are waaaaay slower than the fresh stuff. The camber challenged Si got about 30 decent runs and then the dropoff was so bad I thought it was my driving. At 50 runs I was wishing I was on Star Specs honestly. The heat generated by a front drive car with -.7/.6* camber is a killer.

As far as pax, I've driven with the second easiest pax in the GS Civic and now with the STR pax, which isn't 'soft' I'd say. One thing always holds true though, the car won't do it for you, you have to drive quick and stay off the cones regardless no matter who you are. STF and HS paxes are low for a reason: the cars ain't quick nor do they have power or quick turn-in. I agree though, PAX is derived by the guys/gals that set the bar at the big events and Ruth explains that. Keep in mind those CSP, SSM, ST* etc car are modified to the highest degree of the rulebook. You're probably not going to see cars at most local events prepped anywhere near that degree. That said, it's easier for a stock car to get more out of PAX because you can set your car up for around $5k and be closer to the top, prepwise if you're not running blingityblang shocks like the Motons.

My goal this year was to be just as quick in the stock (except front Saner bar) S2000 as the fully prepped GS Civic which had the full shabang: Koni's, 15 lb wheels, A6's, Hawk pads. So far, so good and with 18 people showing up in STR, who needs pax? :lol:

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