THSCC Eighth Annual V Foundation Autocross July 21st & 22nd

steve remchak · **Posted:** Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:35 pm

JamesShort wrote:

Proposal: 2 different courses during the weekend. 1 or both counts for points.

If you come to both days, you sum time is your time for the points event.

If you come to just Saturday, you will get a delta added to your Saturday time (could be positive or negative) to serve as your Sunday time.

If you come to just Sunday, you will get a delta added to your Sunday time (could be positive or negative) to serve as your Saturday time.

The delta would be determined by taking only people who attended both days. Take the average time of all of those participants on Saturday minus the average time of those same participants on Sunday. I'd say if there are 50+ 2 day people, this would be pretty accurate even with a few outliers who have great times one day and terrible times the next.

This is also equivalent to saying your average time over 2 days is your points time and for those 1 day folks, you take your time +- 0.5*delta

uh, OK?

JamesMilko · **Posted:** Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:58 pm

If the points event is both days the course should stay the same both days. It's pretty doubtful I'm going to do both days of this event and I don't think we should expect people who want to run for points to come to both days.

RobLupella · **Posted:** Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:31 pm

JamesMilko wrote:

If the points event is both days the course should stay the same both days. It's pretty doubtful I'm going to do both days of this event and I don't think we should expect people who want to run for points to come to both days.

Two different courses. Saturday points since the schedule rules. Or both days points events. I like the two different courses.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:28 am

Ok folks, maybe it isn't clear. The decision has already been made to have 2 different courses. The only question now is how should the points event get wrapped into this weekend.

Last year we have 63 people who came both days. Many of the people who participated in the bracket races were 2 day folks. We received lots of feedback from those folks that they would have liked different courses each day (like the years before). Looking at the results vs. the year long championship points race from last year, there was ZERO people who only came 1 day who ended up in the top 3 of a given classes points race.

However, it's understandable that given Saturday has been listed as the points event all year (was purely a random chance that Carl/Emmie put it that was as it was essentially TBD) that we hold the points event that day. But given the near 4:1 Sunday:Saturday in this poll, it's hard to compete with that. We know someone is going to be less than happy so the idea with any organization is to piss off the least number of people since pissing off zero people is impossible.

Doing the same course both days will appease very few and very likely annoy the much larger percentage of folks who want to come both days (the folks who will be contributing the most $$ to the charity to boot)

I'm wondering if the 15+ people voting for Sunday are 15+ people who already know they are only coming for one day?

Jordan Normark · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:35 am

I voted Saturday for points since I based my plans around the points event. I really want to make the event, but if it ends up being Sunday I need to be back in Raleigh no later than 3:00. Any chance I could run/work with the first and second group?

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:28 pm

I voted for Sunday because that was the typical day for points events. But, I will be there for both days, so maybe it doesn't matter if we need Saturday to be the points day. Plus, add to that the fact I am nearly DFL in STR..... :thumbsdown:

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:00 pm

Thanks again to all involved with obtaining this site!!!! Will we be able to use it more than once per year?

I don't have an opinion on which day is the points day since both will be essentially driver education/practice for me prior to heading off to the Toledo Pro and Peru Tour.

Thanks again!

Matt McGrain · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:48 pm

Dick, we're hoping to add it as a regular venue to next year's schedule if everyone enjoys the site and the management is happy with us autocrossing on it.

As it stands, that's the plan for the next event too at the Piedmont dragway.

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:38 pm

Matt McGrain wrote:

Dick, we're hoping to add it as a regular venue to next year's schedule if everyone enjoys the site and the management is happy with us autocrossing on it.

As it stands, that's the plan for the next event too at the Piedmont dragway.

Great (assuming we like the site). FYI I'll be running my SCCA compliant muffler at Fayetteville.

Les Davis · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:04 pm **Posts:** 2059

JamesShort wrote:

Ok folks, maybe it isn't clear. The decision has already been made to have 2 different courses. The only question now is how should the points event get wrapped into this weekend.

Yes Sir! It has become quite clear to me that I'm the only person in this club who thinks slowly enough to benefit from a little time to think about a course and how I'm driving it. It has clearly been proven to me that I'm the only soul left in the club that still prefers split run groups, no one else apparently benefits from a hour or so between runs to observe other drivers and think about how one is approaching a course, I find it hard to believe, but we have had several polls that have proven it to me so I must concede. Same applies here I guess and perhaps its just nostalgia, it just so happens that my very first trophy and my very first top 5 raw finish can directly be attributed to running the same course two days in a row, apparently once again I am the only person in the autocrossing world who could possibly benefit from a night of contemplation and a few extra looks at a course. I guess I'm just slow.

Anyway, I'm certainly not offended by two different course over the two days, I enjoy variety very much which is consequently also why I like the inclusion of split run groups and two day events that have the same course on occasion, it provides a different approach from the way things are done normally at most events. Regardless, even doing two different courses on the two days, I really think we should seriously consider making both days count for points, it at least should be an option in the poll. Something like you posted earlier James certainly seemed a bit complicated and I definitely don't want to be the one that calculates the results, but something like that might work, it will piss some people off of course as will anything you do, but it might work.

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:47 pm

I hear what you are saying about split run groups, Les....my thinking is that if anyone wants to go to a Tour event they have to learnto get it done in three runs, all at once. Splitting runs does not encourage that kind of psychology.

As for two points events, I don't have a strong opinion except that it could put some folks in a tight spot if they can't make both events and they are in close races for a season trophy.

RobLupella · **Posted:** Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:32 am

Les, I used to prefer the split run groups too for the reasons you mention. I think I now prefer all at once because I can remember what I screwed up better and attempt to fix it. :lol:

I'm not a strong advocate though so if we did split I would not bitch. As Steven says I see your point.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:06 am

So Les, you are saying both days are independent points events? As in we'll have 9 total and drop your lowest 2?

Les, I understand your nostalgia, but we're trying to work with the masses. I'm sure you can understand that the Fort Bragg crowd will likely be a large % of our attendance at Crown Coliseum (now and in the future), so keeping them happy with multiple courses will hopefully help get them to bring new drivers to day 2 and/or the next event(s) we hold at Crown.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:52 am

No Les, you aren't the only person in the club feeling nostalgic. But my opinion is branded as "disruptive" as I am not a "regular" on the AutoX circuit.

But I must admit much of the rationale behind the decision makers thought process has been clarified for me by Mr. Carter's response.

"prep for national events" ......... not a bad idea at all actually.

However, I believe that not counting both days of a two day event as points earning runs is stubborn and irrational thinking.

Finally, I can't put much faith in a poll that only attracts 25 people. Forum traffic has got to be at its lowest point in years so appealing to the minority is exactly what these forum polls accomplish.

As to changing the course because the Ft Bragg Gang will find that more attractive, well I would love to see the data on that research study. :roll:

Maybe Les and I should run for AutoX VP in December............ we can run on the "Split-Ticket" ............. if we win, I'm splitting, and Les will be in charge............. :lol:

JamesMilko · **Posted:** Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:00 am

I like all at once purely for the fact that there is a chance I can bug out early if the weather is terrible or if I have something going on later that day.

THSCC Forums

THSCC Eighth Annual V Foundation Autocross July 21st & 22nd

Who is online