STR Call out!!!

Matt McGrain · **Posted:** Fri May 20, 2011 12:12 pm

Zach Hill wrote:

Steven Carter wrote:

TIR is the "Easy Button"of autocross, in many ways....

Except R-comp PAX with street tires sux!

I've been in that boat Zach with the M3 when I was in tire too. I was still behind the fast B-stocker's like Chris, Karl, and Eric by around 4 seconds. :oops:

What do you guys think on a 60 second course is lost on ST's? I'd venture to say ~1.5 seconds on average.

Zach Hill · **Posted:** Fri May 20, 2011 12:16 pm

Matt McGrain wrote:

What do you guys think on a 60 second course is lost on ST's? I'd venture to say ~1.5 seconds on average.

Ask Noah on Sunday. ;-)

edit: But since ST* PAX is lax [I'm loving these words ending with 'x'], I'm loving it! And I get to keep my intake and adjustable shocks. WIN.

MarcusMcRae · **Posted:** Fri May 20, 2011 12:17 pm

Zach Hill wrote:

Steven Carter wrote:

TIR is the "Easy Button"of autocross, in many ways....

Except R-comp PAX with street tires sux!

He is running BS pax. It's higher than STR.

Zach Hill · **Posted:** Fri May 20, 2011 12:20 pm

MarcusMcRae wrote:

He is running BS pax. It's higher than STR.

Yeah, BS pax. Duh. :roll:

Matt McGrain · **Posted:** Fri May 20, 2011 12:41 pm

Zach Hill wrote:

Matt McGrain wrote:

What do you guys think on a 60 second course is lost on ST's? I'd venture to say ~1.5 seconds on average.

Ask Noah on Sunday. ;-)

edit: But since ST* PAX is lax [I'm loving these words ending with 'x'], I'm loving it! And I get to keep my intake and adjustable shocks. WIN.

Funny, I thought about that too. No pressure Noah! Haha!

Yeah, STR is such a cool new class IMO. When I went to the event in S. Georgia in March I think there were something like 29 entries in STR.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Fri May 20, 2011 12:56 pm

Matt McGrain wrote:

Zach Hill wrote:

Matt McGrain wrote:

What do you guys think on a 60 second course is lost on ST's? I'd venture to say ~1.5 seconds on average.

Ask Noah on Sunday. ;-)

edit: But since ST* PAX is lax [I'm loving these words ending with 'x'], I'm loving it! And I get to keep my intake and adjustable shocks. WIN.

Funny, I thought about that too. No pressure Noah! Haha!

Yeah, STR is such a cool new class IMO. When I went to the event in S. Georgia in March I think there were something like 29 entries in STR.

Yeah the rule of thumb is about 1.5/60 or 2.5%. Lots of regions that run street tire pax multiply raw by 0.975 to get the adjusted raw time, and then multiply that by the class pax to get the regular pax time. This get's rid of the TIR class and let's street tire folks run with the open classes.

MarcusMcRae · **Posted:** Fri May 20, 2011 12:59 pm

JamesShort wrote:

Yeah the rule of thumb is about 1.5/60 or 2.5%. Lots of regions that run street tire pax multiply raw by 0.975 to get the adjusted raw time, and then multiply that by the class pax to get the regular pax time. This get's rid of the TIR class and let's street tire folks run with the open classes.

That's like double pax! :!:

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Fri May 20, 2011 1:00 pm

seems the rule of thumb has been that street tires lose 1 sec for a 60 sec course vs Rcomps. GRM did a test a couple years back to see if it still held true, and it did for the most part.

To clarify, "Easy Button" didn't mean "easy to win." For me it means "easy to show up, have fun and not lose a ton of money in mods or Rcomps." Of course, those that consider autocross to be SRS BSNSS may disagree, which is fine. My life is serious enough as it is--I don't need to go looking for more on Sunday afternoons!

JamesShort · **Posted:** Fri May 20, 2011 1:12 pm

Steven Carter wrote:

seems the rule of thumb has been that street tires lose 1 sec for a 60 sec course vs Rcomps. GRM did a test a couple years back to see if it still held true, and it did for the most part.

To clarify, "Easy Button" didn't mean "easy to win." For me it means "easy to show up, have fun and not lose a ton of money in mods or Rcomps." Of course, those that consider autocross to be SRS BSNSS may disagree, which is fine. My life is serious enough as it is--I don't need to go looking for more on Sunday afternoons!

Hmmm, I've seen 1.5s on 60. GRM is saying 1s on 60? Which tires were tested?

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Fri May 20, 2011 1:27 pm

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/measuring/

meh...they got about 1.3 secs between Kumho Ecsta XS and V710s, so not an exhaustive comparison. But, for a crappy driver like me that doesn't make much difference.

Maybe we can do our own StarSpec vs A6 comparison? I nominate Noah's RX-8, as he has both the Hoosiers and Dunlops already mounted....

Carlton Whitehead · **Posted:** Fri May 20, 2011 1:37 pm

Quote:

easy to show up, have fun and not lose a ton of money in mods or Rcomps

This. I'm not ruling out the possibility of doing some mods or going with R comps at some point, but I'm not in a hurry to get there.

Keith Quistorff · **Posted:** Fri May 20, 2011 2:41 pm

JamesShort wrote:

Yeah the rule of thumb is about 1.5/60 or 2.5%. Lots of regions that run street tire pax multiply raw by 0.975 to get the adjusted raw time, and then multiply that by the class pax to get the regular pax time. This get's rid of the TIR class and let's street tire folks run with the open classes.

I like

. Given the benefit of larger classes, I'd be all over running street tires in Stock class if a fair / test-proven Tire Correction Factor was applied. The price (vs. life) of RComps and hassle changing them at the end of a hot day of autocross were significant factors that pushed me toward STX this season.

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Fri May 20, 2011 2:56 pm

hmmm...maybe new business item for next month's meeting?

JamesShort · **Posted:** Fri May 20, 2011 3:01 pm

Keith Quistorff wrote:

JamesShort wrote:

Yeah the rule of thumb is about 1.5/60 or 2.5%. Lots of regions that run street tire pax multiply raw by 0.975 to get the adjusted raw time, and then multiply that by the class pax to get the regular pax time. This get's rid of the TIR class and let's street tire folks run with the open classes.

I like

. Given the benefit of larger classes, I'd be all over running street tires in Stock class if a fair / test-proven Tire Correction Factor was applied. The price (vs. life) of RComps and hassle changing them at the end of a hot day of autocross were significant factors that pushed me toward STX this season.

Yes, I think that many regions who do this use a fixed 'adjustment' fraction (say 97.5%). However, I'm not sure that applies across the Stock/SP spectrum.

For instance, I'd say a 400whp ESP Mustang/Camaro is going to be MUCH faster...say 2-4s on 60s faster on r comps than on street tires. Whereas an H stock car will only be modestly quicker on r comps....maybe 0.8s on 60s. So there isn't *one* factor that would adjust all cars for street tires. But from googling, it seems that most clubs use a factor between 97-98%.

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

Anything to get more open class participants.

Personally, I don't like the PAX classes, but understand the reason for why TIR exists. It takes an awful lot of people away from open class though.

I don't quite understand why X class exists though. It detracts from open class participation, with no real tangible benefit from what I can see. We publish an overall PAX list, you can always see where you would have ended up. The only benefit I see is people who can run multiple cars over the year and still participate in season points, but thats gotta be less than 5 people or so anyways.

I'm all for getting rid of both classes personally, to bring people back to open.

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