Would a Clubman S be that much slower than a Cooper S in DS?

JamesShort · **Posted:** Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:06 pm

Just wondering. I loved the way Maria's car drove when I got a few rides at the Triad event (awesome brakes and steering feel compared to the WRX). Thought I could trade sally wagon A for sally wagon B

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Gwen Habenicht · **Posted:** Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:08 pm

Here's some math you can use.
Both the S and the Clubman S have the same wheel width, F=4' 9.2"/R=4' 9.5". Same hp 181. Same torque.

Here's the differences:
wheel base on the S is 8 ft 1.1 inches
Clubman S in 8 ft 4.3 inches The Clubman is longer=won't turn quite as well.

0-60mph: S=6.6 Seconds
Clubman S= 6.8 seconds The Clubman is slightly slower at launch

Here's the kicker, and I almost can't believe this is correct:
Unladen weight for the S=2,668 lbs. (believable-my N/A is 2,424. I weighed it at NCAC last year.)
Clubman S=3,671

Clubman is a thousand pounds heavier. My guess is that equals SLOWER!

Keep the WRX and buy a *real* Mini.

My source is Mini USA. YMMV :wink:

JamesShort · **Posted:** Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:14 pm

Hmmm, 36XX might be the GVW. I think I saw that the Clubman S was 28XX curb weight.

I knew the wheelbase was longer with the clubman, but I wonder about the degree to which handling is sacrificed.

Anyway, after reading around a bit, seems the Clubman doesn't have THAT much more room compared to the Cooper.

TomFreeman · **Posted:** Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:37 pm

I've driven a Clubman S and a Cooper S back to back (BSing a car salesman on a day off work) and I can definitely say that the Clubman doesn't weigh 1K#s more. The 36XX is definitely the GVWR.

The Clubman is a little more quiet, and not quite as nervous at highway speed. The Cooper wants to turn a little more, and seemed a bit louder. I do agree that from a cargo perspective, the Clubman isn't much bigger than a Cooper. The rear seat, however did seem notably bigger. It might have just been the suicide doors, however.

I think at the local level, a good driver could hustle a Clubman around the cone at a competitive pace to a Cooper.

If regional or national competition is in the future, it is definitely bringing a knife to a gunfight.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:02 pm

Hmmm, I guess another question would be did BMW 'sissyfy' the Clubman S any? Spring rates, rear sway bar, suspension geometry/adjustability, bushing durometer etc etc. Or is it truly a Cooper S with a slightly longer wheel base.

I think at this point, if I were to make the jump, I'd probably just get a MCS.

David Spratte · **Posted:** Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:07 pm

Either would be faster than the Subaru.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:38 pm

David Spratte wrote:

Either would be faster than the Subaru.

Hey now, a WRX on 225mm heat cycled v710s, on $500 koni sports, in his first season on rcomps was only 1.5s slower than you at nationals

.

Anyway, R53 or R56 for D stock? Any major suspension differences? All I've read is about the R56 having aluminum rear LCAs. Seems the R53s are more reliable from a powertrain perspective.

Gwen Habenicht · **Posted:** Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:51 pm

JamesShort wrote:

Anyway, R53 or R56 for D stock? Any major suspension differences? All I've read is about the R56 having aluminum rear LCAs. Seems the R53s are more reliable from a powertrain perspective.

My 2005 Mini went through 3 transmissions. The new ones have the Getrag which seems to be holding up. The older Mini's, however would just bang the rev limiter while the new ones cuts fuel so the engine goes flat. Talking to some Mini guys this weekend in Wilmington, they felt the newer Peugeot engines are better. This I'm just parroting a DS owner and a guy who's looking into running a Mini next year.

Arthur McDonald · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:54 am **Posts:** 2052

Gwen Baake wrote:

they felt the newer Peugeot engines are better

Minis are built by BMW with Pigout engines? EeeeeeeU!

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

the R56 has bigger wheel wells and can get a little more camber if I'm not mistaken. Also, the torque is significantly greater in an R56. I still like the R53 for its character, but on an autocross course, the R56's are faster.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:16 am

BriceJohnson wrote:

the R56 has bigger wheel wells and can get a little more camber if I'm not mistaken. Also, the torque is significantly greater in an R56. I still like the R53 for its character, but on an autocross course, the R56's are faster.

So the front camber is adjustable on the struts on the Mini's? Eccentric bolts where the strut meets the knuckle? Or e46 style with slotted strut towers?

EDIT: It's slotted strut towers like the e46.

Brice, what camber can MJs JCW get? How has it been on tires? I know the JCW might be a bit lower than the S so probably has a bit more camber.

EDIT2: Lame, starting in early MY10 MCS, you can't get a factory LSD

.

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

We've never had it properly aligned, but I don't think you can get much more than 1 degree. Maria has like 1.5 if I'm not mistaken.

The JCW car of my wife's generation actually has the same suspension as the stock sport package, no changes there. Its just supercharger upgrades (smaller pulley, some coating on the rotors), mild headwork (and raised rev limiter), intake, exhaust, software, and the big brake kit (which is the standard brakes on the R56). Oh, and you also get screwed into C-stock instead of being allowed to run DS.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:42 pm

Yeah, I think I'm giving up on this

. Can't get LSD on the brand new ones. And finding an 07-09 with LSD, sports suspension and NOTHING else (no moon roof package or heated seats etc etc) is proving to be impossible. Seems that EVERY S has the Premium and Cold Weather package.

So under stock class rules, if I found a MY2010 MCS with an open diff, I could swap a factory LSD into it right since it was an option on the very very early MY2010s?

Keith Vail · **Posted:** Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:22 pm

JamesShort wrote:

So under stock class rules, if I found a MY2010 MCS with an open diff, I could swap a factory LSD into it right since it was an option on the very very early MY2010s?

That would be correct.

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:08 pm

JamesShort wrote:

Yeah, I think I'm giving up on this

. Can't get LSD on the brand new ones.

I wager the upcoming FWD BMW sub-1 series (0-series) will give you LSD, making some Mini buyers "pay up" for it. meh. Did the DS-winning MCS have a sunroof?

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Would a Clubman S be that much slower than a Cooper S in DS?

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