TIR Class Exclusion List

Jonathan Rodriguez · **Posted:** Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:35 am

Chuck Frank wrote:

Just an observation: STS has a tougher PAX than GS.
I now return you to your previous discussions already in progress...

Yeah, but back in the day it didn't... :wink:

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Wed Mar 24, 2004 8:53 am

Vern Geddings wrote:

Very few novices, if any run R compound tires.Let's assume that I'm a novice (not that big of a stretch). So if I have a G stock car but choose to run as an STS car (better pax) and I then run an identical time as a car that is running g-stock nov, I would beat that car based solely on math. The club's rule about novices and sts is a well intentioned attempt at fairness, but it's impossible to be fair to everyone in every instance. Again this theory is based on the assumption that novices don't normally run on R compound tires.

I said I would stop posting on this, but I just can't help myself.

So outside of the already covered issue of this being a bad PAX example. So in your example you have a GS car that has every rights to run R tires in NOV. I know it is not common, but you could do it if you wanted. So you are complaining about showing up in an under prepared car and not winning?

NOV != TIR for newbie. NOV = Open for newbie.

I can see only two options. Ban BOTH R tires and ST* classes or allow cars to run as classed. I had been saying to allow cars to run as classed, but now I am changing my mind. Since this would cause more people to run ST* classes, and not all cars fit into ST* classes (now at least) then it makes more sense to just ban R tires from NOV and make NOV a JV TIR class.

Ok, I will try again to shut up about this. :twisted:

Maybe I should just stop reading this thread.

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

Richard Casto wrote:

then it makes more sense to just ban R tires from NOV and make NOV a JV TIR class.

Can anyone tell me the last time this happened, and about how many times it happened in 2003?

Methinks that we're talking about a problem that isn't really a problem.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:20 pm

MikeWhitney wrote:

Richard Casto wrote:

then it makes more sense to just ban R tires from NOV and make NOV a JV TIR class.

Can anyone tell me the last time this happened, and about how many times it happened in 2003?

Methinks that we're talking about a problem that isn't really a problem.

So if it really isn't a problem or doesn't happen much or at all, then there wouldn't be an uproar if we ban R tires.

Then NOV rules would make sense and would be fair.

Are we ready to create TIR1 (NOV) and TIR2 (current TIR) class? :roll:

I doubt we are since many argue against a single TIR class as it is now. See I can argue boths sides of this. :twisted:

Ok, here is another idea to solve the issue above. I even think someone may have mentioned this already. But some clubs have special homegrown PAX values for ST* when running in TIR classes. Then you could run ST* in both NOV and TIR. Of course, someone would have to set the PAX values or agree with the values that other clubs might be using for this. That might be a new can of worms.

Maybe if we get the results posted from this past weekend, we will have something new to talk about.

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:21 pm

I have only seen one NOV on R's and it happened to be this past weekend. A certain Yellow Toyota Spyder that is owned by a couple of REAL fast drivers. One of the owners had a sister there that was driving (and spinning once I believe) the car. She was pretty darn quick. I don't think the tires made that much of a difference. She is just a very talented driver. She didn't win NOV, but came in second. Now she can run open and we won't have to worry about an R tired NOV for a while.

Jonathan Rodriguez · **Posted:** Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:32 pm

MikeWhitney wrote:

Richard Casto wrote:

then it makes more sense to just ban R tires from NOV and make NOV a JV TIR class.

Can anyone tell me the last time this happened, and about how many times it happened in 2003?

Methinks that we're talking about a problem that isn't really a problem.

I saw it happen a couple times last year actually. But you're right, it's not very often.

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

Todd Breakey wrote:

I have only seen one NOV on R's and it happened to be this past weekend. A certain Yellow Toyota Spyder that is owned by a couple of REAL fast drivers. One of the owners had a sister there that was driving (and spinning once I believe) the car. She was pretty darn quick. I don't think the tires made that much of a difference. She is just a very talented driver. She didn't win NOV, but came in second. Now she can run open and we won't have to worry about an R tired NOV for a while.

Well, Katie was driving on corded tires ...

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:53 pm

So I guess they were technically not R compound tires then. They were S (steel) compound tires. That explains the spin! :lol:

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:00 pm

Todd Breakey wrote:

So I guess they were technically not R compound tires then. They were S (steel) compound tires. That explains the spin! :lol:

We need a new TIR class...... :lol:

Vern Geddings · **Posted:** Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:09 pm

I hope no one thinks that I was complaining. I was just trying to explain the way I thought it worked. Back in 2000 when the situation first reared it's ugly head, STS had a better pax then GS. I too am going to stop reading and writing about this topic. I fear that I'm becoming guilty by association. To quote Ryan " :deadhorse:

"

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:31 pm

Vern Geddings wrote:

I hope no one thinks that I was complaining. I was just trying to explain the way I thought it worked. Back in 2000 when the situation first reared it's ugly head, STS had a better pax then GS. I too am going to stop reading and writing about this topic. I fear that I'm becoming guilty by association. To quote Ryan " :deadhorse:

"

Of course back then, GS was actually made up of cars currently classed in DS. DS and ES contained the current day GS...

Scott

Jonathan Rodriguez · **Posted:** Wed Mar 24, 2004 6:30 pm

scottjohnson wrote:

Vern Geddings wrote:

I hope no one thinks that I was complaining. I was just trying to explain the way I thought it worked. Back in 2000 when the situation first reared it's ugly head, STS had a better pax then GS. I too am going to stop reading and writing about this topic. I fear that I'm becoming guilty by association. To quote Ryan " :deadhorse:

"

Of course back then, GS was actually made up of cars currently classed in DS. DS and ES contained the current day GS...

Scott

And the STS pax was STILL easier than either of those classes...

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