TIR Class Exclusion List

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Mon Mar 15, 2004 1:56 pm

We need to exclude the cars that fall within the SCCA Street Touring classes from the THSCC TIR class. If your car is eligible for one of the three Street Touring classes, you already have a street tire class.

STSS for Street Touring Stock - Screwed. :lol:

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

Just ban the Azenis from TIR class and that will force about 90% of the people to move in a hurry :lol:

I think this tire thing was discussed previously wasn't it :roll:

Graham (who moved his cheater tire car to AS)

David Teague · **Posted:** Mon Mar 15, 2004 3:59 pm

jimpastorius wrote:

We need to exclude the cars that fall within the SCCA Street Touring classes from the THSCC TIR class. If your car is eligible for one of the three Street Touring classes, you already have a street tire class.

STSS for Street Touring Stock - Screwed. :lol:

I though you cold not run Tire and designate your class as STS/STX/STU/ST2, seems like the rule used to exist.

Adam Ligon · **Posted:** Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:04 pm

David Teague wrote:

jimpastorius wrote:

We need to exclude the cars that fall within the SCCA Street Touring classes from the THSCC TIR class. If your car is eligible for one of the three Street Touring classes, you already have a street tire class.

STSS for Street Touring Stock - Screwed. :lol:

I though you cold not run Tire and designate your class as STS/STX/STU/ST2, seems like the rule used to exist.

Your right you can't. Also NOV cannot run with an ST pax either.

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:18 pm

Adam Ligon wrote:

Your right you can't. Also NOV cannot run with an ST pax either.

Why can't a novice run with a ST pax? There is nothing to prevent a novice from showing up with DOT-R compound tires. There is nothing in the rules that say a novice can not use the ST classes.
The only rule is

Quote:

Tire choice in Novice Class is subject to appropriate open class rules.

I understand that to mean if you run a ST class, you have to run tires of 140 or greater treadwear.

Adam Ligon · **Posted:** Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:32 pm

jimpastorius wrote:

Adam Ligon wrote:

Your right you can't. Also NOV cannot run with an ST pax either.

Why can't a novice run with a ST pax? There is nothing to prevent a novice from showing up with DOT-R compound tires. There is nothing in the rules that say a novice can not use the ST classes.
The only rule is

Quote:

Tire choice in Novice Class is subject to appropriate open class rules.

I understand that to mean if you run a ST class, you have to run tires of 140 or greater treadwear.

Because they can't. Go to the registration page. Sign up in NOV class and try to put in STS or STX. Let me save you the time, it won't let you. I didn't make the decision but that's the way it is.

Patrick Wellenius · **Posted:** Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:51 pm

I can't remember the exact reasoning but I think it was because the ST paxes were so low that it gave certain cars in NOV an unfair advantage or other noobs in particular stock or SP cars.

Good idea though to get people into more ST classes and out of TIR.

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:56 pm

Adam Ligon wrote:

Because they can't. Go to the registration page. Sign up in NOV class and try to put in STS or STX. Let me save you the time, it won't let you. I didn't make the decision but that's the way it is.

Maybe the rules should reflect the registration page?

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Mon Mar 15, 2004 5:06 pm

I'm not sure the rules ever changed, but they might need an update. The reasoning behind it was that every index is based upon race tires (except for ST classes). For the cars that were STS/STX legal, in a lot of cases the index was easier for the ST class, and you would see the top of the leaderboards in NOV filled with ST* classed cars. The same is true for TIR class, and that loophole has been closed as well.

I have yet to see a true novice in there own car on race tires, and if they are and don't win, well, they might consider a new hobby

- AB

MarcusMcRae · **Posted:** Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:03 am

jimpastorius wrote:

We need to exclude the cars that fall within the SCCA Street Touring classes from the THSCC TIR class. If your car is eligible for one of the three Street Touring classes, you already have a street tire class.

STSS for Street Touring Stock - Screwed. :lol:

The Street Tire Nazi strikes again. :roll:

I would not mind changing my class to STU if you get can get some other people in there. I have not changed my registration because it does not seem like any fun to be the only person running in a class and get bumped. Half the fun of running in TIR is the large number of people competing in it.

Marcus

Chuck Frank · **Posted:** Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:58 am

IIRC There have been some novices on race tires in the past where it was a co-drive situation. i.e. the husband/father/SO was driving in open, and their wife/offspring/OSO was signed up in Nov.
Saying that someone who enters possibly their first event ever who happens to end up in a car on race tires and doesn't win the class should take up a different hobby is rather harsh! :roll:

Even if meant as a joke, it could discourage a newbe.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:16 am

jimpastorius wrote:

Why can't a novice run with a ST pax? There is nothing to prevent a novice from showing up with DOT-R compound tires.

Chuck Frank wrote:

IIRC There have been some novices on race tires in the past where it was a co-drive situation. i.e. the husband/father/SO was driving in open, and their wife/offspring/OSO was signed up in Nov.

I personally totally agree with the above statements.

Last year my Dad started to co-drive with me in STS. He had no autocross experience, but basically it just seemed crazy that he couldn't run NOV with an STS pax. If I had a DSP car with R tires there would have been OK, but I just happened to be running STS with Azenis vs. DSP and R tires.

As it turns out we DID go ahead and run him in NOV with DSP pax and Azenis and due to his good driving he won NOV at that event anyhow. :twisted:

The point here is, if they are a novice, let them run the car as classed. If they show up with a totally prepped car or get a great co-drive offer, well then good for them! If they do well, they will win and no longer be allowed in NOV class. The current rule would only make sense if you excluded R tires in NOV and we don't do that.

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:22 am

Chuck Frank wrote:

Saying that someone who enters possibly their first event ever who happens to end up in a car on race tires and doesn't win the class should take up a different hobby is rather harsh! :roll:

Even if meant as a joke, it could discourage a newbe.

WHATEVER - AB

David Teague · **Posted:** Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:35 am

Richard Casto wrote:

The point here is, if they are a novice, let them run the car as classed. If they show up with a totally prepped car or get a great co-drive offer, well then good for them! If they do well, they will win and no longer be allowed in NOV class. The current rule would only make sense if you excluded R tires in NOV and we don't do that.

If you let people in Novice or Tire Run STS/STSX/STSU/ST2 it is an unfair advantage, why you ask? The ST pax is pased on cars that run street tires, while the rest of the class's pax's are based on cars running R compond tires, so if I ran Tire class in STS I would have better chance to win the event since my pax is softer becuase my class runs street tires, where if I ran DSP I might not even place, since my pax would be harder.

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