THSCC in the N&O

Chuck Frank · **Posted:** Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:50 am

It IS VERY important to distinguish the semantics, SCCA is EXTREMELY sensitive to anyone calling AX "racing". Reread their definition, I didn't make it up.
There are "results posted" in a lot of competitions, from ice dancing to arm wrestling to beauty pagents to dog shows that doesn't make them races. I'm sure our insurance company would be very upset if we said we were racing. Yes, we compete against a clock, but that is exactly what makes it a driving skills competition, if it were a race we would be competing against each other with the person that reached the finish line first being the winner, no clock would be required. In AX the fastest car doesn't win, the best driver does.

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:59 am

Chuck Frank wrote:

It IS VERY important to distinguish the semantics, SCCA is EXTREMELY sensitive to anyone calling AX "racing". Reread their definition, I didn't make it up.
There are "results posted" in a lot of competitions, from ice dancing to arm wrestling to beauty pagents to dog shows that doesn't make them races. I'm sure our insurance company would be very upset if we said we were racing. Yes, we compete against a clock, but that is exactly what makes it a driving skills competition, if it were a race we would be competing against each other with the person that reached the finish line first being the winner, no clock would be required. In AX the fastest car doesn't win, the best driver does.

Soooooo........ Rallying is not racing? How about Bobsledding? Both are decided by the clock and IMHO are racing.

I think both of those would be WAYYYYYY more interesting if it were they started at the same time and person who reached the finish line first won.

Again, SCCA ignores the 800 lb gorilla with semantics.

Rich Anderson · **Posted:** Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:14 pm

Chuck Frank wrote:

It IS VERY important to distinguish the semantics, SCCA is EXTREMELY sensitive to anyone calling AX "racing". Reread their definition, I didn't make it up.
There are "results posted" in a lot of competitions, from ice dancing to arm wrestling to beauty pagents to dog shows that doesn't make them races. I'm sure our insurance company would be very upset if we said we were racing. Yes, we compete against a clock, but that is exactly what makes it a driving skills competition, if it were a race we would be competing against each other with the person that reached the finish line first being the winner, no clock would be required. In AX the fastest car doesn't win, the best driver does.

Whether the runs are simultaneous is irrelevent. It is a competition of speed aka a contest to see who can cover a set distance in the shortest amount of time. That is the definition of a race. There is no subjective criteria as in the strawmen you threw out. Like it or not, SCCA legal language that does nothing but pander to the insurance companies does not change the fact autocross fits the dictionary definition of a race.

And back on subject, racing =/= safe driving in the minds of the public.

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:15 pm

It is truly a matter of "semantics". You are racing against the clock and competing against other individuals. You do not compete against a clock, since it is an inanimate object. It is a race pure and simple. There are not any judges determing your skill points...unlike the competitions you mentioned (except arm-wrestling).

An insurance company is not going to look at the marketing hype and base their decision on what you or the SCCA are trying to market.

No where in any marketing hype is AX touted as a driver's education event. Regardless of how some people want to taut that AX has made them a better driver, there just are not any empirical facts to back it up. If there were, I am sure someone would be selling AX as driver's education.

The Extreme Driving school will force the driver to close their eyes, the instructor will take the wheel and drive the vehicle off the track at 35 mph. The student opens their eyes and has to bring the car back on the road under control...they do this over and over as an exercise...now that is driver's education.

It would be interesting to see if the AX sub-population has a better driving record than the general population.

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

Dictionary: A race is "To compete in a contest of speed." Speed is distance/time. Shortening the time while keeping the distance constant improves your speed. Ergo, autocross is a race.

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:22 pm

Chuck Frank wrote:

if it were a race we would be competing against each other with the person that reached the finish line first being the winner, no clock would be required.

Then what is ProSolo?

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:29 pm

jimpastorius wrote:

Chuck Frank wrote:

if it were a race we would be competing against each other with the person that reached the finish line first being the winner, no clock would be required.

Then what is ProSolo?

DING! Give the man his prize!

Rich Anderson · **Posted:** Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:29 pm

THSCC.com What is Autocross wrote:

An autocross (aka Solo II®) is a timed, precision driving motorsports event. Almost any vehicle from a stock street vehicle to an open-wheeled, Formula-style car can be used. (Exceptions are high-profile vehicles such as minivans and SUVs. THSCC also does not allow carts.) The driver of the vehicle does not race wheel-to-wheel against other competitors, but, instead, races against the clock to maneuver the course cleanly and faster than other competitors.

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:32 pm

Ok, we have all made our points lets get the thread back on topic or it may be locked.

Jason Mauldin · **Posted:** Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:36 pm

Ryan Holton wrote:

Ok, we have all made our points lets get the thread back on topic or it may be locked.

Take a shot, and then threaten to lock it! That's cheap, man! :lol:

shawnwhipple · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 6:28 pm **Posts:** 603

So all this discussion about what a race is and what autocross in my opinion tends to favour the flying under the radar approach to our media relations.

If we, as a group involved in the sport, can't decide what autocrossing should be called then how can you expect it to be acurately described by reporter with no concept of what we do.

While I personally think any high performance driving event does help your street driving. I don't think it is within the realm of the club to be doing teen driver education or advertising ourselves as such.

We don't need help advertising our sport. We have 155 folks preregistered for the event this weekend. Lets try to digest that before we start putting articles in the newspaper to attract more entrants.

Shawn

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:56 pm

shawnwhipple wrote:

We don't need help advertising our sport. We have 155 folks preregistered for the event this weekend. Lets try to digest that before we start putting articles in the newspaper to attract more entrants.

My sentiments exactly Shawn. Wow, this man must have been President! :wink:

Rich Anderson · **Posted:** Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:00 pm

Ryan Holton wrote:

lets get the thread back on topic

And that would be....?

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

The N&O didn't return emails about the V Foundation autocross, evidently no one died so there was no interest in good news. Anybody want to volunteer to fall on a grenade at the Laurinburg event?

Jason Mauldin · **Posted:** Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:04 pm

Wes Eargle wrote:

The N&O didn't return emails about the V Foundation autocross, evidently no one died so there was no interest in good news. Anybody want to volunteer to fall on a grenade at the Laurinburg event?

We could tie Ryan in the pilot chair of that big jet and see if that makes the news!

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