THSCC Forums

Aaron, I am sorry to see you go, especially under the circumstances.

I agree with Shawn too.

I feel like choices have been presented between "old timers" and new leadership, Facebook or forum, Trophy girls or offended. I don't see any of these as choices. In addition to having young kids, the direction of the club has affected my desire to participate. I hope and believe this will pass or at least some of the sentiment will. But for now, I have reconsidered purchasing a lifetime membership this year and will opt for annual.

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92 Miata 1.9L naturally aspirated. SSM 21

To say this has been an interesting year for THSCC is an understatement. Facebook, now Rob's inappropriate comment and general undercurrent of frustration w/ events taking so long to be setup and listed on the event's calendar is taking it's toll on the club. Shawn pointed out how he feels like an outsider now due to being away for a while and having reinvent himself. To a degree, that's true, you have new faces to meet and greet.

Time moves on, the club changes, people change and priorities change. The club will constantly change going forward as well

To that end I've heard from so many "old timers" about bailing and stepping aside. Let me please ask you NOT to do that. If you leave, you have no voice and in as such you can no longer offer insight, an opinion or club wisdom. It's easy to step away from a bad or degrading situation. Much harder to stay engaged and make changes and offer advice to keep the club going.

There are plenty of upset people right now and I wished this wasn't the case. This is a volunteer club and I think we're doing a good job right now supporting what the club does, car stuff. It's the miscellaneous crap that gets in the way. I'm asking you to please look past the BS and stay and make this a great club that's focused on track rallyx and autox.

I've thought about stepping aside as well, but I have 14 years, soon to be 15 years invested in this club and after thinking about it last night I'm not about to step away. We have sooo much to offer to drivers and we need to stay focused on that direction.

For those that have suggested leaving, I'm asking you, please don't. That's giving up. Stay and lets push forward and get back on track.

standing down off of the pulpit....

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Rodney

'08 Bullitt mustang, CAM 7
Autox VP '09-'10, President '11-'12, interim President 2nd half of ‘14
proud recipient of the Bowie Grey service award '12
Now just a guy driving a mustang....

My participation (events, meetings, social gatherings) is driven by many factors. I put myself into that category of "life is in the way". Busy work schedule, children, etc. But I also feel a strong affinity to the club and the people. I bought a lifetime membership a year or two ago because I plan to be in this for the long haul. I am also not anti-change. As noted above (both motorsport and car culture is in general experiencing a decline) the world is changing.

Richard

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Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

This has been a tough year for autocross sites and planning, and the club has been going through a lot of changes. We had some new staff this year, we're transitioning to a new electronic membership system and new event registration system, we're working on a way overdue website, we've introduced the club to social media, and there have been growing pains. Despite having very few members volunteer to chair events, through the hard work of our staff and those that did chair we managed to have a bunch of fun events. Could it have been better? Sure, but we are all volunteer staff members doing our best while we all have other lives and other responsibilities as well, and given the issues we've had to deal with I don't think the year was a failure by any means.

The club's officers are elected democratically so if you dislike something someone has done, state your opinion constructively and don't vote for them in the next election. Please also keep in mind that the voice or action of a single member (or even staff member or officer) does not define the club. An action (removing pictures on facebook) or statement (Rob's comment which while not untrue, completely lacked any tact whatsoever) is not the club. The club itself is a combination of its rich, longstanding history, some aspects positive and negative depending on who you ask, combined with the current staff making decisions based on their best judgment, and the future staff who will come in next year and host more events for us attend. For someone who's been with the club a long time to dislike something one person did and choose to quit the club entirely over it I believe is an overreaction. In fact, removing yourself and your voice only strengthens the voice which you oppose, and it certainly doesn't help the club.

The biggest thing I'd like to express is this: WE ARE A CAR CLUB. Period. We come from all walks of life: era, age, nationality, race, religion, political affiliation, genders, sexual orientations, etc. If we discussed every topic with each other, of course there would be feuds and arguments and we'd never have a consensus or agreement! The point of a club like this is that we can all agree on one thing and come together and experience and enjoy the one thing that we can all agree on. We all like driving fast, and THAT is the point. Leave all that other stuff aside and let's focus on what brings us together.

For me personally, I've been a VP for two years and I'm on the ballot for VP and president in 2015. The thought of pulling my name off entirely in light of all this recent bullshit has definitely crossed my mind. But, like Rodney, I am not going to pull my name, I am going to continue to push forward and do what I can for the benefit of the club. Will I make mistakes and choices that some people will disagree with? Yep, I sure will. But if I get elected for a position, I will volunteer my time, consider what our members have to say and do my best, just like people have been doing for 50 years. Some years are better than others, and I don't think 2014 has been one of our best. But 2015 onward is a clean slate, but it will take lots of people contributing to make it great, but I believe it is absolutely possible.

I ask all members, from the old timers all the way to the brand new members to instead of leave at the sight of trouble, please stay and share your opinions, ideas, and if you are able, volunteer to do what you can to make the club do what it was meant to do: hold great amateur motorsport events. I have no doubt that a lot of the longstanding members and ex-officers have useful advice that could be shared with the new(er) staff. And to the newer folks, remember that we don't know or necessarily understand what has happened in the past, other than that there are certainly things that we could learn from.

Okay. Now let's go racing!

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2015-2017 President
2014 Track VP
2013 Autox VP

2002 Subaru WRX [dd]
2002 Honda S2000 STR #3 (retired...for now)
1992 Acura Integra ChumpCar #118 (retired)
2004 Toyota 4Runner V8

http://beastmoderacing.com

I can see how we are frustrated with this situation.

Aaron, I wish you wouldn't leave. This past year was one of our most successful in a lot of ways, we had many more participants at events than several years prior, and we are already actively working on a schedule for next year.

I don't need to speak about specific comments made by others - that's clear, but I agree that many people need to stop and think before they make a post. It's a lot easier to type than say.

We are a club of many, and a strong one at that. Obviously, we will have our ups and downs, and learn from them. I'm sure this is the case and look forward to next year being even better than this one.

With that being said, I agree with you to a degree, but my point of view is that it all stems from frustration as this this year we have had a vast minority making these events happen where as in the past we had a much larger group taking point on things. We need to turn this around, and have more people step up to the plate to do what is not required of them, but needed for the club to thrive.

I'm not defending Rob's comment, but he's stepped up to the plate for the majority of our events to take on roles which others would not volunteer, and for that I am extremely grateful. Rob is an excellent guy, and an asset to the club, but I agree.... Rob.... You really need to be careful about how you phrase things. People really take these comments personally and it's certainly not professional.

Aaron, again, I hope you will reconsider.

Best Regards,

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Club Webmaster
-2014 Mazda 6 SkyActiv DD
-2002 Honda S2000 totaled by deer

I hate to see the club seemingly tearing itself apart like this. It doesn't have to be like this but it seems that some choose to divide and belittle others in the club instead of listen and explain. Members telling other members to F off is classless and certainly not constructive. I'll be honest and I know some "old timers" can attest to this but I have defended Rob in the past as "misunderstood" and that he is really a good guy. I sure have egg on my face now (as I have been told by those same old timers this morning). Good team members don't speak to other team members like that. The same thing could have been said in a much more useful and constructive manner and you damn* well know that Rob. You are better than that and I hope you can show that.

Something is definitely "different" in the club lately. I know I have been told that I am the token THSCC apologist by others. I have been told we have courses that are either lame or unsafe and we have an arrogant unfriendly attitude. The events of the past few months have done nothing help the arrogant, unfriendly appearance to both members and non-members.

To say its been a tough year is an understatement. Sites are difficult to obtain, making the schedule a mess. The "modernization" of THSCC. James taking a job on the west coast**, leaving Rodney to a job he didn't necessarily want to do (but did so to help the club out). These are all growing pains that the club can weather. As long as we keep talking and respecting each other and most importantly having fun. Belittling members over pictures on Facebook or helping out will only serve to further divide this club.

Ryan Holton
Apparently an "old timer" but I'm nowhere near as old as Art or Vincent or Rodney, so how the hell does that work?




*Sorry for the potty mouth Art
**I damn sure am not begrudging James taking what was apparently an awesome job opportunity

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02 Focus SVT
STF 9

Keehner is getting thrown under the bus pretty hard here. He said something dickish at the end of his first post- If people think it was unacceptable just temp ban his forum account and we can all move on. What I don't understand is how to make the leap from a single rude comment made by a member to some larger issue with Tarheel leadership's perceived failures. AB's original post reads as reminiscing about good old days and then wagging a finger at the current state of the club in which he doesn't participate. How is that constructive? The fact that the first page of responses to Rob's comment have been people assuming he was a club officer goes to show how much work he has put forward towards keeping the auto-x program running.

I did my first Tarheel event two years ago and I thought people were generally friendly and approachable. Is this decline of the club over the last two years just in terms of participation or club income? I guess I am surprised that multiple people have felt the club wasn't particularly friendly. Are there any concrete suggestions for how the club can change that perception?

I nominate Alec for autox VP!

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Rodney

'08 Bullitt mustang, CAM 7
Autox VP '09-'10, President '11-'12, interim President 2nd half of ‘14
proud recipient of the Bowie Grey service award '12
Now just a guy driving a mustang....

Sounds great. My first order of business is to change auto-x vp to someone who shows up to half the events and one third of meetings.

So meetings at Alec's house?

I will apologize for my wording earlier but not the sentiment. If we are going to have family friendly events I guess it should start here. However, Rodney did say at the meeting the private forum was the place for it.

AB certainly ignited something in me that I've brought up before and it has to deal with deadbeat membership. It's fine to be a member for any reason. If you live miles away and only make an event occasionally fine, if you are getting older and it's harder too do fine, if you are like Ryan and Vincent and in 50 years you are sitting on a back porch still with your best buddy great. But if you aren't attending, aren't helping, and aren't getting someone new to come what is the point. New faces are the lifeblood of motorsports, it's hard and not everyone can do it long term. For every Art, or Neil there are a thousand who do a year or two and move on. For every Bowie there are a million (who by the way put on a fun rally and dinner with the support of some other old timers). If you want a different feel show up and create it. If you aren't going to do that then as the Rock says, "Know your role and shut your mouth." I don't even know what some of the people posting in here look like it's been so long. I honestly think it's harder to "be a member" and just post here year after year with no face to face than it is to wake up early on a Sunday and show up. I love it when people I haven't seen in a year put life on hold to come play.

AB there is a great line in Tombstone by Curly Bill, "We'll...bye". If the current events that you don't attend don't live up to your expectations there isn't a lot I can do for you. The current state isn't about efforts 10 or 20 years ago. Past efforts are irrelevant when you leave with them. Gripes from has beens aren't useful, new people will come and go that you won't even know about. Ryan Holton helped me and a few others start the NCR program that was brutal at first. It literally almost killed Kevin Butler, lol. Would I tell anyone there now I was better 10 years later, no that would be absurd.

Other opinions expressed personally about me here will be considered about as long as I consider eating a turd sandwich.

Just as a side note we had people wear out multiple rental cars at event #8, and multiple national champions were in attendance. So much for a deep talent pool and having a good time.

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2006 Civic Si - #24 HS for 2015

2005 GMC Sierra
1991 318is Garage Ornament

I didn't realize there was a problem with the club that was pushing members to leave. The pictures thing seems silly and overblown. I can guarantee that 90% of that is internet argument shenanigans.

Otherwise, I can see Rob's comment being offensive, but at the same time I am not really seeing the issue described by the OP (It seems more like a reaction to a sensationalized event). If the picture "scandal" was that significant to you, then you are really not going to enjoy the internet much. This has nothing to do with the track program (or the autox one for that matter), so I don't see the point.

I am really not sure I understand where Rodney and/or Zach are coming from about leaving the club. Rodney, I understand you are tired of the responsibilities of being President, but what is core issue here that is pushing people away? Zach?

Good question I'd like answered as well. I think some people need to grow a thicker skin, and some need to think before they speak. This discussion is good to have, but we really need to try and be adults here guys. Some of these comments are just not necessary.

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Club Webmaster
-2014 Mazda 6 SkyActiv DD
-2002 Honda S2000 totaled by deer

If you were part of the group who were insulted, had many years of their contributions to this club questioned and then labelled a mysognist your take away from that would be different.

Read Shawn's post, try to place yourself in the position of a member that has given the majority of his adult life to making this club awesome, and is now being pushed away by people who have no respect for him or his efforts.

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In need of car.

Read Shawn's post too, Shawn, I had no idea you felt that way. I know that we all certainly appreciate you, your joyful way about you, your driving, your assistance with almost anything? Can you please elaborate on how you feel like an outsider. I only ask because this comes as a surprise to me.

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Club Webmaster
-2014 Mazda 6 SkyActiv DD
-2002 Honda S2000 totaled by deer