Request to consider some options for the Autocross program.

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:56 pm

Jason Mauldin wrote:

It's the price of tires. Its chasing everyone away.

It's possible, but I doubt it.

I certainly will say that people dumping their disposable income into something like this with the economic conditions over the last couple of years probably has an impact, regardless of the price of tires.

Cash Davidson · **Posted:** Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:59 pm

All this talk about attendance got me very curious. When I started autocrossing with the Mohud Region back in 1995, 60 was alot of drivers. My last full season with THSCC (2002) we started seeing 150. Since I've been away a while, I don't have a sense for how attendance has varied over the last decade, so with nothing else to do, I plotted it from the results posted on the website.

Obviously this is average drivers per event - some events were much larger than others within a given year.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:10 pm

Aaron Buckley wrote:

Jason Mauldin wrote:

It's the price of tires. Its chasing everyone away.

It's possible, but I doubt it.

I certainly will say that people dumping their disposable income into something like this with the economic conditions over the last couple of years probably has an impact, regardless of the price of tires.

It has been a few years since I have autocrossed on a regular basis. I loved doing it, but I had more going on than I had time for. So I cut out autocrossing so I could "theoretically" spend more time getting the 914 done. In reality, I am not sure it worked out that way as I don't think that extra one weekend a month has resulted in more time in the garage for me. And I have to admit that the economy hasn't helped me either. I have other places I am putting my money as Aaron says.

I think there may also be a bit of "aging" of the club in a way that many of the young gun regulars started to get married, have children, career has taken off, etc. so they have less free time on their hands?

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:16 pm

Welcome back Cash.

The graph shoes a decline, but not a catastrophic one. I think the same thing that made autocross big for a few years is what is killing it now (that and the economy and a war).

We got "big" because of the internet. Suddenly people could find us, find our events and participate.

We are getting smaller because of that same technology. Today's "kids" don't give a damn about driving. I've got teenage nephews and nieces, and they don't want to drive, because they can't text their friends. I'm serious. We also have a generation of youth that spend all their free time playing "Call of Duty" and that sort of nonsense.

Our new membership has generally been young, childless, recent college grads. What are those folks doing these days for fun?

We have a little war going in the middle east. I don't know how many folks we actually draw from Ft. Bragg, but I know there were some. Even 5 regulars skews the numbers.

JamesMilko · **Posted:** Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:44 pm

Keep in mind with those numbers above that we should have had a growth in our participation. This area has had explosive growth thanks to Yankees like me.

Wake County
Year - Pop
2000 - 627,846
2008 - 866,410

And to a lesser extent:
Durham County
2000 - 223,314
2009 - 269,706

Orange County
2001 - 116,084
2008 - 126,532

Jason Mauldin · **Posted:** Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:47 pm

Cash, did you leave the NCAC events in your numbers?

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:51 pm

What would be interesting is the number of novices over the years. The retention rate is probably still 10%. If the number of novices have declined, then it might be waning interest, economy, etc.

If the numbers are steady, then product.

How many of you posting have found other interests. For me, road racing is pretty much all consuming in time and money. Last year was the first time I have not autocrossed in eleven years! With a full race schedule, I doubt I will be out in 2011. If we had events closer to home, I would consider it.

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:58 pm

jimpastorius wrote:

What would be interesting is the number of novices over the years. The retention rate is probably still 10%. If the number of novices have declined, then it might be waning interest, economy, etc.

If the numbers are steady, then product.

How many of you posting have found other interests. For me, road racing is pretty much all consuming in time and money. Last year was the first time I have not autocrossed in eleven years! With a full race schedule, I doubt I will be out in 2011. If we had events closer to home, I would consider it.

For me, the local events have been cut down due to time, not financials. In the last 3 years, I have been to more Tours/ProSolos than local events. - AB

Jason Mauldin · **Posted:** Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:01 pm

jimpastorius wrote:

How many of you posting have found other interests.

Other interests here. I can't even say that I would get back in if it only consisted of a half-day of time, but it would be really tempting.

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:13 pm

From my experience (autocrossing since 1975) if you want spilt days you need physically shorter and easier to learn courses in addition to all the other issues/solutions discussed above. Run two laps to get the run times up or just do more runs. There is a lot to be said for having more shots at the same corner if you want to learn the limits of your car and understand the balance. If you prefer the constant challenge of learning "on the fly" then high speed Rally at night . . . been there done that. :wink:

Think about how long it takes to walk an L'burg course and how many walks it takes for most of us to actually learn the course. Got 2 hours in mid day?

Dick (Hardcore autocrosser so "my" opinion is obviously not representative of "normal" folks :wink:

)

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:30 pm

jimpastorius wrote:

What would be interesting is the number of novices over the years. The retention rate is probably still 10%. If the number of novices have declined, then it might be waning interest, economy, etc.

If the numbers are steady, then product.

How many of you posting have found other interests. For me, road racing is pretty much all consuming in time and money. Last year was the first time I have not autocrossed in eleven years! With a full race schedule, I doubt I will be out in 2011. If we had events closer to home, I would consider it.

DING! and DING!

HPDE and stuff like Lemons has drained the AX ranks as well (not saying its a bad thing).

The lack of a Wake County site certainly hurts, but I know the guys are working on that.

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

Quote:

Here is a twist, in one of the Alabama regions they give EVERYONE 3 timed runs, break for lunch and then its fun runs the rest of the day. They only run about 50 drivers (I mean it is Alabama)

That sounds awesome.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:33 pm

it has been touched on several times so far but not really been brought out in the open....... "shorter, less complicated courses"

when attendance / income decreases the scope of the event should also decrease.

i gave up on autocross for about 30 different reasons.

1) i'm not very good at it
2) i no longer have a car for it
3) i not about to toss my track car into craters and rocks at L'Burg
4) Lemons, Chump

5) it really kills my back and knees standing out there for 1.5 / 2 hours at a worker station

6) god forbid if i actually had to run after more than one cone

7) most 20 somethings are maroons and i have nothing in common with them when i try to talk to them at a worker station.

using the radio correctly is too difficult for most newbies

9) etc. etc.

30) it just ain't worth the effort for 4 minutes of driving

Cash Davidson · **Posted:** Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:43 pm

Jason Mauldin wrote:

Cash, did you leave the NCAC events in your numbers?

Yes. Multiday events were counted separate ie: 2-day event = 2 events. I didn't count the "Member Only" events or the Nite series (although that was a hoot).

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

Thanks for posting that info on those clubs Chuck and Ryan. The one I'm thinking of is SCCA from Frisco. Thanks for throwing out the numbers Jim. I was hoping to see some of you experienced AX VPs/Pres throwout the logistics part in numbers and times. It makes it easier to see just how many bodies and how much time to get the event to run. I had some rough ideas and figured about 70 for a half day.

Given the club is seeing attendance dropping down under 100 for some events. Couldn't you just make the event 1/2 day for points and leave the rest of the day as fun runs and happy hour to socialize? Offering 2 options instead of 1.

Knowing the logistics and numbers sets the tone for how many people are needed to even attempt it. A site like Greenville is a potential to split the event since the site is so small.

So you AX VPs with lots of experience. How many bodies does it really take to run an event? Ranging from comfortable to tight? Let's say for sake of argument we have a 60 second course at Sanford or Danville.

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Request to consider some options for the Autocross program.

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